A 12G20 at 90 degrees crosswind landing in light sport

Salty

Salty

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Salty
Had some storms rolling past this morning so I went up and had some fun with some wild gusty crosswind landings in the skycatcher with the camera turned on.

I've only got an old hero3 with no image stabilization. I used a software stabilizer on the second video, but it cropped the image some and didn't work to well on the slo-mo replay....


 
Thanks for reminding me what I didn't like about the Skycatcher! :D
 
You mean you went up on purpose?! :) Use the Mooney next time.

I don't think I've done G20 xwind in the Tecnam, but I've done gusts of 15 at 90 deg, which is max demonstrated for that plane. Might have been a bit higher; Apopka is pretty unpredictable, and the anemometer is poorly located. I didn't like it. But the plane was reusable, so by definition it was a great landing.

LSAs can feel like a butterfly being tossed by a leaf blower.
 
Damn, you look frightened there! Just kidding, nice work, made it look easy.
 
At first something wasn't making sense until I figured out the controls. What's that thing called? Stoke? Yick?
 
luvflyin said:
At first something wasn't making sense until I figured out the controls. What's that thing called? Stoke? Yick?
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LOL. Oddly enough when flying it feels like a stick. You don't even notice.
 
Certainly looks like a light sport. Good job.
 
Either the winds weren't all the strong, or the Skycatcher doesn't require proper control placement during taxi.
 
Salty said:
LOL. Oddly enough when flying it feels like a stick. You don't even notice.
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It kinda makes sense. I only ever have one hand on the yoke in the 182. Would give more space to not have the whole right side of yoke
 
P2008 is a much better flying machine than the Skycatcher. It also costs a lot more!
 
Lachlan said:
No need for ailerons into the wind on rollout and taxi, ay? Nice.
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I’m not perfect at putting in aileron at taxi, usually I only do it after I notice I need to rather than preemptively. I’m getting better about it. But, keep in mind there are tall trees very close to the runway at the threshold, so for parts there is little wind. If you watch the takeoff roll, you’ll see me toss in full right aileron just before the threshold. That’s when I noticed I needed it and didn’t have it in yet.

Keep in mind the 162 ailerons only go up, they don’t go down. They really aren’t very effective on the ground. But every bit helps and I’m trying to remember to use them preemptively.
 
Good job!

I have never done such a thing for fun, but I did a good bit more gusty crosswind than that with an instructor in the 140. Good thing I did. Some years ago I had been away from my home airport most of the day and had a surprise when getting ATIS to find 17 G25 straight across. I had an alternate airport chosen with three runways, but I thought I would just go on down and see if I could make it in. I was pretty low time at that point, probably a hundred hours with less than half of it tailwheel. With a prayer and bugged out eyes I got it in surprisingly well. It was a confidence builder.

At that point, at least in my mind, I confirmed that my tailwheel endorsement hadn’t been pencil whipped.
 
Salty said:
I’m not perfect at putting in aileron at taxi, usually I only do it after I notice I need to rather than preemptively. I’m getting better about it. But, keep in mind there are tall trees very close to the runway at the threshold, so for parts there is little wind. If you watch the takeoff roll, you’ll see me toss in full right aileron just before the threshold. That’s when I noticed I needed it and didn’t have it in yet.

Keep in mind the 162 ailerons only go up, they don’t go down. They really aren’t very effective on the ground. But every bit helps and I’m trying to remember to use them preemptively.
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All it takes is one time for you to find religion on aileron input on the ground, one time. Voice of experience, fortunately I didn't bend an airplane gaining that experience, but it was close.
 
Here are some stills.

One fun thing about this airport is the treeline that starts just before the threshold and ends just after it. That means that you sometimes get different winds just before you flare and again while you're in the flare. Stills below show this.

Here's the crab needed to hold the center line.

Screen Shot 2019-10-08 at 8.34.16 AM.png


Here I am holding appropriate aileron on the takeoff roll. Note the left aileron does not go down, only the right goes up.
Screen Shot 2019-10-08 at 8.55.58 AM.png


The next 3 stills are final. This is just before dropping below the treeline.
Screen Shot 2019-10-08 at 8.58.53 AM.png

After dropping below the trees, I had to correct the other way.
Screen Shot 2019-10-08 at 8.59.04 AM.png

Then, in the flare I'm past the trees and end up landing right wheel first, but drifted a bit off the centerline.
Screen Shot 2019-10-08 at 8.59.19 AM.png
 

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Salty said:
Here are some stills.

One fun thing about this airport is the treeline that starts just before the threshold and ends just after it. That means that you sometimes get different winds just before you flare and again while you're in the flare. Stills below show this.

Here's the crab needed to hold the center line.

View attachment 78505


Here I am holding appropriate aileron on the takeoff roll. Note the left aileron does not go down, only the right goes up.
View attachment 78508


The next 3 stills are final. This is just before dropping below the treeline.
View attachment 78510

After dropping below the trees, I had to correct the other way.
View attachment 78511

Then, in the flare I'm past the trees and end up landing right wheel first, but drifted a bit off the centerline.
View attachment 78512
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Looks like an Apopka landing, except your runway is level! :D
 
The more I look at the video the more I think the title of this thread is bogus. There's no way the wind is gusting 20 knots 90:degrees to runway. The Skycatcher's max demonstrated xwind component is 12k. With non differential ailerons (only up deflection), I seriously doubt this LSA could handle a 20k gust directly across the runway. I've landed in crosswinds much higher than the aircraft I was flying's demonstrated xwind but they weren't LSA and they had conventional controls
 
Witmo said:
The more I look at the video the more I think the title of this thread is bogus. There's no way the wind is gusting 20 knots 90:degrees to runway. The Skycatcher's max demonstrated xwind component is 12k. With non differential ailerons (only up deflection), I seriously doubt this LSA could handle a 20k gust directly across the runway. I've landed in crosswinds much higher than the aircraft I was flying's demonstrated xwind but they weren't LSA and they had conventional controls
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Ok.
 
Salty said:
This was the METAR at the airport 7 miles north of me when I got in the plane.

KBKV 061353Z 07012G20KT 10SM CLR 27/22 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP169 T02720217

Pulled off of https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/request/download.phtml?network=FL_ASOS if you feel the twisted need to take this further.
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I prefer to believe my lying eyes than an observation at some airport you weren't landing or taking off from. Just the other day the AWOS at my field was calling calm winds while the windsock was standing straight out. The videos indicated that you were operating with winds no where near this thread's title.
 
Witmo said:
I prefer to believe my lying eyes than an observation at some airport you weren't landing or taking off from. Just the other day the AWOS at my field was calling calm winds while the windsock was standing straight out. The videos indicated that you were operating with winds no where near this thread's title.
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Call the feds.
 
This is why the accident rate is so high in light sport aircraft.
 
Salty said:
What is the “this” you are referring to?
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You can do you own research into LSP accidents rates. There were people complaining about their premium increase in the last month or so. Low wing loading and high cross winds are a bad mix.
 
Clip4 said:
You can do you own research into LSP accidents rates. There were people complaining about their premium increase in the last month or so. Low wing loading and high cross winds are a bad mix.
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I don’t think that answers my question. I’m not able to determine what you think the “this” is that makes light sport dangerous.
 
Salty said:
I don’t think that answers my question. I’m not able to determine what you think the “this” is that makes light sport dangerous.
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sounds good to me. Post a link that says the light sport accident rate is equal or less than legacy birds.
 
Clip4 said:
sounds good to me. Post a link that says the light sport accident rate is equal or less than legacy birds.
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What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I’m not arguing your premise. Heck, I don’t even know what you premise is. Based on your last comments it seems to be that light sport is dangerous.

But I still don’t know what you think in this thread proves light sport is dangerous.
 
Salty said:
I don’t think that answers my question. I’m not able to determine what you think the “this” is that makes light sport dangerous.
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Then go back and read my post, low wing loading and cross winds are bad juju. Which is what the OP is advocating.
 
Clip4 said:
This is why the accident rate is so high in light sport aircraft.
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So, the “this” in this sentence is “low wing loading”? Because crosswinds aren’t a feature of light sports.
 
After flying the cruz and 162 a bit, I learned not to fly on windy or gusty days. That carried over to my 140 as well. A 182, not so much.

Also, the 162 has differential ailerons. They go down, but not as far as they go up.
 
Salty said:
So, the “this” in this sentence is “low wing loading”? Because crosswinds aren’t a feature of light sports.
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No, but most of usfly airplanes in the air. Crosswinds, wind shear, and turbulence make these aircraft very difficult to fly and have a corresponding high accident rate.
 
GeorgeC said:
After flying the cruz and 162 a bit, I learned not to fly on windy or gusty days. That carried over to my 140 as well. A 182, not so much.

Also, the 162 has differential ailerons. They go down, but not as far as they go up.
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Actually, it's more complicated than that. They go down a tiny bit, then they go back up a little at the very end of the throw. But for practical purposes they don't really go down enough to remark on it.
 
Clip4 said:
No, but most of usfly airplanes in the air. Crosswinds, wind shear, and turbulence make these aircraft very difficult to fly and have a corresponding high accident rate.
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There's no way anyone could have understood that from your initial post. Your post simply said "this".
 
OK, but this shows why you should always ignore internet x-wind tales. :) By the time you actually got down to the runway, the x-wind was miniscule, as evidenced by your nearly zero bank angle correction into the wind and your extremely small crab angle at touch down.
 
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