91.146 charitable flight, have I got this right?

[Jim K]

I offered a local sightseeing flight as an auction item for trivia night at our kid's school. It brought $550 which was a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I envisioned this as being a 91.146 flight, and I put in all the limitations such as 25nm and landing at the same airport as departure. I meet all the requirements.

As I'm preparing to draft the required letter to the FSDO, I find myself with two questions:

Since I'm receiving no compensation of any form for this flight, does 91.146 even apply? Is this just the same as me taking any friend for a flight? The family that bought it also has kids in the school and we are friendly. I think the fact that the school offered the flight and received money for it does mean that the 91.146 rules apply, but frankly it all feels a little silly.

Assuming the letter is required, what date should I put down? The flight has to be VFR, and obviously I'd like calm, clear weather, which is never guaranteed 7 days out, which is the notification requirement in the reg. When I was originally considering doing this I found a thread where @midlifeflyer and @EdFred mentioned doing this in the past, but now I can't find it. I "think" they said they listed a date range and that satisfied the fsdo. I also think the general consensus was that the fsdo doesn't really care unless they think they see a pilot or organization abusing the reg.

 

[murphey]

Did the same a few years ago in Denver area. FSDO didn't care. FSDO didn't even want to know. But your FSDO may be different.

 

[EdFred]

When I submitted to the FSDO they never got back to me, so I said F it, and just gave the ride as if I was taking up friends.

 

[Jim K]

I'm thinking maybe I should just call the fsdo and ask what they want... but usually it's better not to poke the bear.

 

[Brad Z]

I offered a local sightseeing flight as an auction item for trivia night at our kid's school. It brought $550 which was a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I envisioned this as being a 91.146 flight, and I put in all the limitations such as 25nm and landing at the same airport as departure. I meet all the requirements.

As I'm preparing to draft the required letter to the FSDO, I find myself with two questions:

Since I'm receiving no compensation of any form for this flight, does 91.146 even apply? Is this just the same as me taking any friend for a flight? The family that bought it also has kids in the school and we are friendly. I think the fact that the school offered the flight and received money for it does mean that the 91.146 rules apply, but frankly it all feels a little silly.

Assuming the letter is required, what date should I put down? The flight has to be VFR, and obviously I'd like calm, clear weather, which is never guaranteed 7 days out, which is the notification requirement in the reg. When I was originally considering doing this I found a thread where @midlifeflyer and @EdFred mentioned doing this in the past, but now I can't find it. I "think" they said they listed a date range and that satisfied the fsdo. I also think the general consensus was that the fsdo doesn't really care unless they think they see a pilot or organization abusing the reg.

School charity flights are exactly why this reg exists. Prior to 2007, in order to properly do this you were supposed to petition for an exemption.

You are correct that even though you don’t make any money, or even get any money, the passenger paid for the flight so the expectation is that there is a level of safety commiserate to a commercial operation.

The reg describes exactly what the FSDO needs. You can probably email everything they need; reach out to the office and find out which inspector you need to talk to and explain it’s your first time. They won’t bite, they understand what you’re trying to do, they just want to make sure you’re in compliance with the rule and nothing bad happens under their watch.

Also, make sure your insurance doesn’t have any restrictions on this type of activity. FWIW, I’ve been approached to do stuff like this in the past, but the logistics, expectations management, cost of fuel and my time has led me to just donate money instead. I also try to keep my plane ownership on the down low for a variety of other reasons.

Good luck!

 

[dbahn]

I'm thinking maybe I should just call the fsdo and ask what they want... but usually it's better not to poke the bear.

I've done a few of these in the float plane, and the only time the FSDO got involved was because someone on the lake complained (more than once) that airplanes shouldn't land on lakes. The FSDO made a few phone calls and reported back to the person who complained that they determined that everything was done in compliance with the regulations. The complainer also called the town clerk and the lake association to complain - which also fell on deaf ears. It turns out that virtually every one of hundreds of owner's liked the activity, and by

I wouldn't bother the FSDO beyond submitting the notification to them. You've checked all the boxes and I agree that they really don't care much unless they are asked to do so.

 

[Lindberg]

I offered a local sightseeing flight as an auction item for trivia night at our kid's school. It brought $550 which was a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I envisioned this as being a 91.146 flight, and I put in all the limitations such as 25nm and landing at the same airport as departure. I meet all the requirements.

As I'm preparing to draft the required letter to the FSDO, I find myself with two questions:

Since I'm receiving no compensation of any form for this flight, does 91.146 even apply? Is this just the same as me taking any friend for a flight? The family that bought it also has kids in the school and we are friendly. I think the fact that the school offered the flight and received money for it does mean that the 91.146 rules apply, but frankly it all feels a little silly.

Assuming the letter is required, what date should I put down? The flight has to be VFR, and obviously I'd like calm, clear weather, which is never guaranteed 7 days out, which is the notification requirement in the reg. When I was originally considering doing this I found a thread where @midlifeflyer and @EdFred mentioned doing this in the past, but now I can't find it. I "think" they said they listed a date range and that satisfied the fsdo. I also think the general consensus was that the fsdo doesn't really care unless they think they see a pilot or organization abusing the reg.

It's not that you're receiving compensation, it's that the flight is being operated and carrying passengers for compensation. They paid for the flight, even though you're not getting paid.

 

[DJTorrente]

they just want to make sure you’re in compliance with the rule and nothing bad happens under their watch.

The problem is when an individual inspector or an entire regional office (perhaps because of the influence of a particular supervisor) decides that the best way to make sure "nothing bad happens on their watch" is to do their level best to ensure "nothing [] happens on their watch". They don't get any awards for a happy public. Nor any repercussions for annoyed public or pilots.

And if anything does happen on their watch that might go bad, it sure as h*11 isn't going to have their fingerprints blessing it beforehand. Which is exactly where Jim K's thought process arises.

 

[Jim K]

Well, it took a minute, but I got an official answer out of the FSDO. I called and was surprised that the person who answered was a local pilot who I actually know. Apparently he just recently started working over there. Anyway, he thought a date range would be fine, but suggested I email the FSDO so as to get an official opinion with a paper trail attached. That was a week and a half ago. Today, I got the following:

Talked to my Front Line Manager,

He said that it will be OK to give a Date Range in your notification of Community or Charity Flights.
Happy Flying. I Enjoy what you are doing.

He also called and chatted for a little bit and said that as far as they were concerned even a month or so date range was fine, but beyond that maybe re-send a new letter with new dates.

I suspect that I will send the letter, they will file it somewhere, and that will be the end of it. At least I will know I crossed all the "t's".