7 passenger Plus

I shared a hangar for three years with a guy who owned a 421. That thing was quite literally in the shop more than it was flying. Most of the time the issue was the (geared) engines.

This is obviously just one data point but I had always heard that 421s are mx hogs and this one data point sure was.

Good thing he had unlimited money.
 
So your a new pilot within the last year with no IR and you can get insured w zero time in M and M in a Cessna 400 series?!
Please! Who is your agent?
 
Sierra Victor said:
So your a new pilot within the last year with no IR and you can get insured w zero time in M and M in a Cessna 400 series?!
Please! Who is your agent?
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I didn’t say it was cheap or that I wouldn’t use a safety pilot.
 
timwinters said:
I shared a hangar for three years with a guy who owned a 421. That thing was quite literally in the shop more than it was flying. Most of the time the issue was the (geared) engines.

This is obviously just one data point but I had always heard that 421s are mx hogs and this one data point sure was.

Good thing he had unlimited money.
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Sounds like the 421 we have.
 
A friend of mine carried 11people in a Caravan once.....


He got a 30 day vacation for that.
 
Zeldman said:
A friend of mine carried 11people in a Caravan once.....


He got a 30 day vacation for that.
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Was it a vacation or a staycation and compliments of whom?
 
Zeldman said:
The Chieftain version of the Navajo is what came to mind.....
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That's what I was thinking, unless you want to go turbine. The only other piston airplane i can think of would be a Beech 18, but they are really old.
 
FormerHangie said:
That's what I was thinking, unless you want to go turbine. The only other piston airplane i can think of would be a Beech 18, but they are really old.
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My airplane was built in 1960. Not much older than most of the GA fleet.

A Beech 18 can definitely do the OPs job of hauling a family of 7 plus bags and fuel. They aren’t cheap, don’t go real fast (150 ktas) but a good Beech 18 will probably cost less to operate than any of the pressurized Twin Cessnas and they are more comfortable and fun to fly.

For perspective, I own a Beech 18 and fly a 421C at work. I would never choose a 421 over my airplane. The 421 cost more to operate and the extra speed of the 421 is pretty much lost on fuel stops
 
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Fearless Tower said:
My airplane was built in 1960. Not much older than most of the GA fleet.

A Beech 18 can definitely do the OPs job of hauling a family of 7 plus bags as fuel. They aren’t cheap, don’t go real fast (150 ktas) but a good Beech 18 will probably cost less to operate than any of the pressurized Twin Cessnas and they are more comfortable and fun to fly.
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And it's 2 years newer than mine!
 
Fearless Tower said:
My airplane was built in 1960. Not much older than most of the GA fleet.

A Beech 18 can definitely do the OPs job of hauling a family of 7 plus bags and fuel. They aren’t cheap, don’t go real fast (150 ktas) but a good Beech 18 will probably cost less to operate than any of the pressurized Twin Cessnas and they are more comfortable and fun to fly.

For perspective, I own a Beech 18 and fly a 421C at work. I would never choose a 421 over my airplane. The 421 cost more to operate and the extra speed of the 421 is pretty much lost on fuel stops
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Can you start a thread on the good, the bad and the ugly of the Beech-18. I have always been curious about them.

Tim
 
A properly equipped Twin Bonanza will haul seven, and would be reasonably comfortable when most are kids. You can get a cherry, basically top-of-the-market TBone for around $250-300k (you gotta know who to ask, these are usually unlisted airplanes), which would leave you a lot of room to opex, etc. Big, easy to load, will haul a ton of weight at a reasonable speed (160kts or so). Docile handling, too, and does short/unimproved fields with ease.
 
James_Dean said:
The big twin cessnas are perfect for what you describe. I LOVE my 425.

There are a few drawbacks;


1. This isn't cheap. Get a GOOD pre-buy at a reputable shop. Pay the money to do it right or the costs of what might not be found could be painful.

Just a few -
http://tas-aviation.com/
http://www.airimpressions.com/
https://www.dfwaero.com/

2. This isn't cheap. You have to be an engaged owner. These are complicated +30 year old machines. Expertise is getting less all the time and the first tier shops are busy. You need to be part of the parts requisition and maintenance decision process to keep costs in line. You will want to find somebody local to you that you can trust, as well as developing a relationship with the first tier shops.

3. This isn't cheap.

4. Loading is generally a breeze, but get used to upping your game on fuel planning.


Five teenagers to Chicago for sweet 16 party? Check.
View attachment 64901

Family of seven on a 1000 mile trip? Check.

View attachment 64902


Four big guys and clubs to AZ to play some golf? Check.
View attachment 64903

1200 lbs of stuff down 700 miles to help hurricane victims? Check.
View attachment 64905


PM me with any specific questions, but FYI I've never owned a 414 or 421.
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2 Bockelmans, 1 Lance, and one 290 lb OkieFlyer. Check!

2sYzSgVHPJom93uqJR8cJL_uw7fLtMvEA1jk0-6NE1VnLTXoX81WNDD7ZdhbiGoOoLJAJuoW8mQOoKD3mUiFiOjRFqJhD9qZ9sqT14n8iyZumv90Zbx_nuv9hpX5N76SIvkD8CxT4xIBW5txN8HZeqlHc5bGI2vxRhU8E-o778bLKh-3E_tlLvz_ud5yEf91OAjSKI9oN05Lvx96LMimfCd_KnVwvgVmBjINez9k8KB8x7kDCRZ2c6R1ZcaX-C9-mXrn9G4Kc8BetEPWPWTihsBWNOMXT36gTb6nbfm3jfj3cPJBoeFFx9e5B1XYYZv49hkrlmL9ZfUHMeXP86tJTcD7R1hwhZSS_tdTt8eMctI3Enqpvo2IMcecIdIDhxS6MRnkTg25VHdEpUpdpHgKvcPYdAkakdFw7hIawdU1PiomimKBU7DNJ673o3FFNRI6eCX-oa8MAvSjWLo40j4kOuZh0ymzFTWlnglnvYykO2xwjpUvyYdrkMvjfslW1A08xwlMHWbjm2AspZQ6aW9n7R9c3TuAxJapeIgBZO5uNvSy2N0M8jcHbb2zuu5CYrcTuJx14ZxMA41MrIomaIdndRoNqHHwcTBw71cTmgg=w429-h241-no
 
Beech 18! Beech 18! Beech 18! We want a write up, photos, and a selfie in front of it! @Fearless Tower
 
I know all the talk about 421 engines being nightmares and I guess some of it's true, but I never had an issue with mine and my buddy has ran past TBO on both his engines and one is at 1700 hours now. A lot depends on the operator and I guess luck! If I were to go back to a piston twin it would likely be a 421B or C. 200 knots on 42 GPH. No piston twin will be cheap to operate, even if you do your own mx. But, there isn't much to compete with them in cabin comfort for the $$.
 
Unit74 said:
Was it a vacation or a staycation and compliments of whom?
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I would call it a vacations since he left the state.

And compliments of the FAA. Only 9 passenger seats. Part 135 operation can only carry 9 people with one pilot, and not more than one person per seat unless the second person is a child no older than 24 months.
 
N747JB said:
He's talking about kids, my 421B had a 2200+lb useful load.
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I understood that, but looking 5+ years down the road, that 200lbs will be a slight bit higher. Now maybe the OP doesn't mind swapping planes every 2 years as the pounds get put on. Kids get heavier, the baggage gets heavier. But as a longer term option, that might up with the tail number in an NTSB report.
 
EdFred said:
I understood that, but looking 5+ years down the road, that 200lbs will be a slight bit higher. Now maybe the OP doesn't mind swapping planes every 2 years as the pounds get put on. Kids get heavier, the baggage gets heavier. But as a longer term option, that might up with the tail number in an NTSB report.
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A bunch 421’s will have 5+ hrs fuel. He could go shorter legs and gain plenty of weight cap.
 
Heh, nice. Looks like it needs a little interior love, but the engine hours are good and the exterior certainly seems well cared for.
 
EdFred said:
I understood that, but looking 5+ years down the road, that 200lbs will be a slight bit higher. Now maybe the OP doesn't mind swapping planes every 2 years as the pounds get put on. Kids get heavier, the baggage gets heavier. But as a longer term option, that might up with the tail number in an NTSB report.
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1200 lbs of fuel will get you 4+ hours in a 421, take 1000 and go 3, leaves 1200 for people, bags and a dog. 3 hours will get you 450-550 miles, time for a potty break anyway! Lightly loaded, you can get 5+ hours with both nacelle tanks, but my butt won't sit that long anymore! :)
 
N747JB said:
I know all the talk about 421 engines being nightmares and I guess some of it's true, but I never had an issue with mine and my buddy has ran past TBO on both his engines and one is at 1700 hours now. A lot depends on the operator and I guess luck! If I were to go back to a piston twin it would likely be a 421B or C. 200 knots on 42 GPH. No piston twin will be cheap to operate, even if you do your own mx. But, there isn't much to compete with them in cabin comfort for the $$.
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Maybe we just have a bad one, but I hate the 421C we fly.

Its a pig to fly (wallows through the air). It’s a pig in the shop (maintenance heavy) and not that comfortable compared to my Beech.

And it is the hardest plane ever to hot start. But it has nice paint. Someone did put lipstick on it.
 
Half a C90? You haven't really said what your budget is, but I have heard and seen that if you can operate a 421 (multiple $50k annuals) , you are a stones throw away from being able to own a C90 King Air. I will say that in order to regularly fly around 7 people (those kids will grow), you will need to have a pretty substantial budget.
 
bradg33 said:
A properly equipped Twin Bonanza will haul seven, and would be reasonably comfortable when most are kids. You can get a cherry, basically top-of-the-market TBone for around $250-300k (you gotta know who to ask, these are usually unlisted airplanes), which would leave you a lot of room to opex, etc. Big, easy to load, will haul a ton of weight at a reasonable speed (160kts or so). Docile handling, too, and does short/unimproved fields with ease.
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Now yer talkin'.
 
bradg33 said:
A properly equipped Twin Bonanza will haul seven, and would be reasonably comfortable when most are kids. You can get a cherry, basically top-of-the-market TBone for around $250-300k (you gotta know who to ask, these are usually unlisted airplanes), which would leave you a lot of room to opex, etc. Big, easy to load, will haul a ton of weight at a reasonable speed (160kts or so). Docile handling, too, and does short/unimproved fields with ease.
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Twin Bos are cool, but for the acquisition and operating cost of a Twin Bo, you could have an equally nice Beech 18.

I guess it comes down to whether you need the little wheel up front.
 
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