6 place single engine piston fixed gear

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numan1

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numan1
Hi everyone. If there is a classification for less experienced than novice, I'm it. Flying has been a dream of mine for many years, but it has been out of reach until now. After searching many hours (days) without finding what I am looking for, this seemed to be the next step to get some direction. The mission is to fly my family to the Florida Gulf in our own plane in less than 3 hours.

Dallas Bay Sky Park (1A0) is where I will train and depart from. Destinations would be primarily Costin (A51) or Ferguson (82J). Max load for passengers (6) and bags is 1300lbs.

I'm looking to invest $50k or less and need information on models and cost of ownership to complete a budget. A Cherokee 6 was mentioned somewhere in the search thus far. Any feedback on this or any other suggestions is appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help (and patience).
 
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I trained at Dallas Bay and flew out of there regularly for several years, it’s a great place to hang your hat. Also nice to see another local on the board, as I’m also in Chattanooga and now fly out of Collegedale.

The Cherokee Six, like you mention, is the option that comes to mind, but also consider a Cessna 206. Both aircraft will get you from here to the gulf in under 3 hours.
 
RyanB said:
I trained at Dallas Bay and flew out of there regularly for several years, it’s a great place to hang your hat. Also nice to see another local on the board, as I’m also in Chattanooga and now fly out of Collegedale.

The Cherokee Six, like you mention, is the option that comes to mind, but also consider a Cessna 206. Both aircraft will get you from here to the gulf in under 3 hours.
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Hi Ryan! Small world! I just read another post that made some valid points about cost of ownership. We will most likely make ~4 trips a year to the gulf, but that may change (and destinations, too) if we own it. I am building a spreadsheet to compare owning vs renting. Fuel, maintenance, insurance, and storage are the costs that immediately come to mind. Are there others I should be aware of, such as estimated repair or replacement costs, or certain things to watch out for?
 
numan1 said:
Hi Ryan! Small world! I just read another post that made some valid points about cost of ownership. We will most likely make ~4 trips a year to the gulf, but that may change (and destinations, too) if we own it. I am building a spreadsheet to compare owning vs renting. Fuel, maintenance, insurance, and storage are the costs that immediately come to mind. Are there others I should be aware of, such as estimated repair or replacement costs, or certain things to watch out for?
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Overhaul reserve, avionics upgrade costs. The latter especially if you are going to be flying IFR. Ownership is not likely to be cheaper than renting. Ownership is mostly about convenience and personal safety. 4X fuel cost is about the bare minimum it takes to operate and maintain a light single.
 
A Cherokee 6 comes to mind for your mission, but there is no way you will find a well-equipped, mid-time model for anywhere near $50K of less. $50K will be hard-pressed to find a good 4-place fixed gear model. To be honest, purchase price is the least of worries for aircraft ownership. It's the operation, maintenance and upgrades that will financially bite, and will may exceed the purchase price over time. The purchase price can be largely recovered when the aircraft is sold. The operational and upgrade costs mostly disappear.
 
chemgeek said:
Overhaul reserve, avionics upgrade costs. The latter especially if you are going to be flying IFR. Ownership is not likely to be cheaper than renting. Ownership is mostly about convenience and personal safety. 4X fuel cost is about the bare minimum it takes to operate and maintain a light single.
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Initially everything will be VFR. Not sure of the timeline yet for IFR certification. Speed of the Mooneys is attractive, but I've also heard retractable gear is more expensive for insurance and maintenance. Lots of homework to do.
 
numan1 said:
Initially everything will be VFR. Not sure of the timeline yet for IFR certification. Speed of the Mooneys is attractive, but I've also heard retractable gear is more expensive for insurance and maintenance. Lots of homework to do.
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No 6 seat mooney, and not one that will come close to carrying a 1300lb payload. You’re cutting it close in a Cherokee 6 with fuel and that’s the heavy hauler of the piston single fleet.
 
You're describing a cherokee 6, but with your budget you will be looking for a partnership. A cessna 206 is really the only other option for 6 place fixed gear. Either way you're looking at at least 75k for older avionics & cosmetics. Closer to 100k if you want it to be reasonably modern & nice. A 6-260 would fill your mission, add another 25-50k if you want a 6-300.

I was looking for a 6-300 and wound up with a Lance, which is the retract version. Insurance is crazy until i get more retract time, but it's faster for about the same money. The complex endorsement is no big deal, but personally I wouldn't want to do my initial training in one.

I suggest you find a club and get your training done before you worry about ownership. That'll give you a year or two to save money as well. Jumping in to ownership is almost as much of a learning curve as learning to fly in the first place. You'll also want to make sure your family likes flying in little airplanes.

Insurance is a difficulty right now. A high performance 6 place airplane is going to be extremely expensive to insure until you get some hours and ideally your IFR.
 
You may also find it challenging to fill all 6 seats in a Cherokee 6 with 4 hours of fuel on board. Useful load for actual Cherokee 6's are around 1600+ lb. Fuel flow at 65% power is about 14 gph, so full max load will be about 1260 lb for a 3 hour trip with 1 hour reserve. The faster you want to go, the less you will be able to carry.
 
Put an ad in local.craigslist , and all the flying forums. You Will find someone with a nice plane willing to share.
I can't believe how many planes just sit at my airport.
Keep us posted .

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Add a hundred grand to your budget and you will get an “ok” airplane, not a cream puff but pretty good airplane. The market is hot, 50k wont come close to a “6”, hard to find a good 172 for that kind of money.

Kurt
 
206 is a whole lotta cake. Budget doesn’t cover a third of that. keep in mind kids get bigger too. I have my wife and two kids. Barely teenagers and we are outgrowing the 182. Starting to look at a lance partner right now.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
1300 lbs. of peeps and luggage, plus fuel, for $50K? May be impossible for less than ten times that.
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Ooooh... missed that. I thought he was asking for 1300 useful. Yeah... leave some bags behind or buy a turboprop.
 
In 50k not gonna happen, even if you find a 6 for 50k, that would mean it’s a very high time engine with 50 year old avionics. Nothing wrong with either if they are working, depending on how it was maintained and flown, that high time engine might give you few hundred hours.

I was doing some window shopping for a 6 the other day, I couldn’t find anything under 125 with the avionics I like and mid time engine. Most are closer to 150-170
 
numan1 said:
...Dallas Bay Sky Park (1A0) is where I will train and depart from. Destinations would be primarily Costin (A51) or Ferguson (82J). Max load for passengers (6) and bags is 1300lbs...
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There's just not that many single piston airplanes with 6 seats that actually have enough useful load and CG range to be a true 6-passenger airplane.
Those mentioned in prior posts, Cherokee Six, Cessna 206 and the Cessna 210, are probably the entire short list.

Tom-D said:
This post begs an Aztec or a better twin, and couple added certificates.
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The ironic part is the OP can probably find a twin that can carry that amount of load for a price closer to his budget than any of the singles.
 
GRG55 said:
There's just not that many single piston airplanes with 6 seats that actually have enough useful load and CG range to be a true 6-passenger airplane.
Those mentioned in prior posts, Cherokee Six, Cessna 206 and the Cessna 210, are probably the entire short list.



The ironic part is the OP can probably find a twin that can carry that amount of load for a price closer to his budget than any of the singles.
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That is true, but I wonder how much mx headache comes with another fan ...
 
325 nm plus a reserve, 1300 lb payload, fixed-gear single, $50,000 budget... It can’t be done.

My friend’s Turbo Saratoga can’t do it, and it breaks the fixed-gear rule and the budget by a long shot. With minimum fuel to do that trip with only a VFR day reserve, the remaining payload is closer to 850 lbs. I don’t think a fixed-gear Six will out-perform that by 450 lbs.

An Aztec or 310 with useful loads of maybe 1700 lbs or higher could do this trip, but not for the budget and obviously not as fixed-gear singles. (If insurance and maintenance on a retract are a concern, don’t even think about a twin. And definitely not a “cheap” twin, also known as the most expensive kind of airplane in the world.)

Realistically, the OP should buy a PA-28, maybe an Archer or a straight Cherokee 180. They can be had for the budget, they are relatively easy to insure, they will do the 325-mile trip not much slower than a faster plane, they will help define the real mission by how many times you have to make other plans because the plane can’t do it that day, and they are easy to sell later.
 
It used to be the case that one couldn't get insurance in any six seat plane, without an instrument ticket. Not sure about today, but insurance hasn't seem any easier.

My Baron 58, with two 300hp TCMs, has 1500lbs of useful load to work with. A couple hundred pounds of fuel is about reserve only. Further, 1300lbs of passengers and bags is over 200lbs per seat. That's a lot of big adults. I think the average weight of a passenger is assumed to be 170lbs. Even with that lower average, piston singles are commonly understood to be restricted to long distance with two fewer passengers than they have seats.

If you're going to think about a twin, the instrument rating is a practically a must. Commuting 300+ miles each way is hard to do reliably in VMC.
 
Wasn't there a Six for 30K on youtube......?
PlainSoggyCoypu-size_restricted.gif

yeeeeeiii! :D
:stirpot:
 
Oh lord, if someone is limited to 50k purchase price, I'm fully suspecting that a twin is not a wise option...
 
Our club is shopping around for another 172 and they are generally $60k and up for something decent.
 
George Mohr said:
Oh lord, if someone is limited to 50k purchase price, I'm fully suspecting that a twin is not a wise option...
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If one is limited to $50k entry price, I'm fully suspecting no 6-place airplane is a wise option.

My observation was merely that clapped out 6-place piston twins can usually be had for closer to that magic $50k than clapped out 6-place piston singles. ;)
 
numan1 said:
Hi everyone. If there is a classification for less experienced than novice, I'm it. Flying has been a dream of mine for many years, but it has been out of reach until now. After searching many hours (days) without finding what I am looking for, this seemed to be the next step to get some direction. The mission is to fly my family to the Florida Gulf in our own plane in less than 3 hours.

Dallas Bay Sky Park (1A0) is where I will train and depart from. Destinations would be primarily Costin (A51) or Ferguson (82J). Max load for passengers (6) and bags is 1300lbs.

I'm looking to invest $50k or less and need information on models and cost of ownership to complete a budget. A Cherokee 6 was mentioned somewhere in the search thus far. Any feedback on this or any other suggestions is appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help (and patience).
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Good luck.
 
GRG55 said:
If one is limited to $50k entry price, I'm fully suspecting no 6-place airplane is a wise option.

My observation was merely that clapped out 6-place piston twins can usually be had for closer to that magic $50k than clapped out 6-place piston singles. ;)
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Agreed on all points. 50k makes a nice buy in for a partnership though!
 
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For the OP. If you are just starting out and want to learn about owning aircraft, buy a decent trainer like a 172 or 152 and finish your training it. You can get one for your budget and will recover nearly all of your initial investment when you sell it to buy a faster and bigger plane.

As other have already noted, the plane for that mission is more in the $150k category and if used that infrequently is probably best owned in a club.
 
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