50 hr inspection

WannFly

WannFly

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my plane is coming up for a 50 hr inspection (i am aware its not needed by any regulation i am aware of, but i want to do it for my piece of mind anyway) and i am also planning to do a 100 hr inspection instead of annual (or whichever is earlier).

i change oil and send them for analysis every 25-30 hrs. this would be 56 hrs since last annual and about 27 since last oil change. here are the list of things i have

  • oil change / cut filter / send for oil analysis / add camguard
    • Take off both cowling and visual inspection of if anything is out of ordinary
    • Check air filter – clean/ replace as needed
    • Check fuel strainers – check and replace as needed
    • Check all spark plugs – clean / change as needed
    • Boroscope cylinders since the plugs will be out
    • Thorough inspection landing gear and struts. (just finished PPL :p)
thoughts? ideas?
 
Sounds like a good start.

I'd make one suggestion however. Just have an annual done every 100 hours if you're intending to go down that path. The scope and detail is the same in a 100 hour as an annual and if you intend to use the same mechanic for both inspections you're potentially wasting money as you near annual inspection time. An annual can be performed in lieu of a 100 hour but the opposite is not true.
 
Keep in mind, the more you take things apart (that are currently working), the more likely you are to suffer from "maintenance induced failure." Sometimes "more maintenance" isn't the answer.
 
bradg33 said:
Keep in mind, the more you take things apart (that are currently working), the more likely you are to suffer from "maintenance induced failure." Sometimes "more maintenance" isn't the answer.
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This is true. Sometimes less is more.
 
mondtster said:
Sounds like a good start.

I'd make one suggestion however. Just have an annual done every 100 hours if you're intending to go down that path. The scope and detail is the same in a 100 hour as an annual and if you intend to use the same mechanic for both inspections you're potentially wasting money as you near annual inspection time. An annual can be performed in lieu of a 100 hour but the opposite is not true.
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yupp, i should have clarified, thats my plan... to do the annual at 100 hrs since last annual (or if its one year since last annual and it havent flown for 100 hrs)
 
bradg33 said:
Keep in mind, the more you take things apart (that are currently working), the more likely you are to suffer from "maintenance induced failure." Sometimes "more maintenance" isn't the answer.
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good point
 
Generally at 50 hours all I do are oil changes and a general look-see under the cowl. If there are any squawks you have, obviously look at those. On the turbo Twin Cessnas there's a 50-hour AD for inspection of the exhaust, so obviously that gets done.

Doing the annual every 100 hours isn't a bad idea if you just bought the plane, but isn't really necessary per se in my experience. I did that in the Aztec, but the Aztec needed a lot of work so we used that as an opportunity to work on projects. Otherwise, I'd probably not bother doing that. As Brad said, too much opening stuff up can lead to maintenance-induced failures.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Generally at 50 hours all I do are oil changes and a general look-see under the cowl. If there are any squawks you have, obviously look at those. On the turbo Twin Cessnas there's a 50-hour AD for inspection of the exhaust, so obviously that gets done.

Doing the annual every 100 hours isn't a bad idea if you just bought the plane, but isn't really necessary per se in my experience. I did that in the Aztec, but the Aztec needed a lot of work so we used that as an opportunity to work on projects. Otherwise, I'd probably not bother doing that. As Brad said, too much opening stuff up can lead to maintenance-induced failures.
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its not a new plane, have about 950 hrs on a factory reman O-360. may be should rethink opening whatever can be opened idea...
 
WannFly said:
its not a new plane, have about 950 hrs on a factory reman O-360. may be should rethink opening whatever can be opened idea...
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I meant new to you more than new overall. Basically building up confidence in the plane itself. It sounds to me like there's no reason to go digging into areas just for the sake of looking.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I meant new to you more than new overall. Basically building up confidence in the plane itself. It sounds to me like there's no reason to go digging into areas just for the sake of looking.
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yah its new to me, but since i got it, i had an annual and 2 oil changes done and about 70 hrs total since i got her. nothing wrong that i can tell anyway
 
WannFly said:
yah its new to me, but since i got it, i had an annual and 2 oil changes done and about 70 hrs total since i got her. nothing wrong that i can tell anyway
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In that case I'd just do your annuals when they come due, take care of squawks as they come up, and do your oil changes every 50 hours (assuming it's a PA28 like your Avatar). If you were flying 200+ hours per year it might be different, but I doubt you are.
 
+1 on not opening anything up without a symptom to address.

70 hours in your getting to the point where you know what sounds/feels right and the oil analysis and "looksies" are all confirming that things are as they should be.

She'll let you know when she needs something. [Usually when your kids tuition is due heehee]
 
since you and plane just coming off the PPL training it might be OK to have it inspected for once or twice but to do it regularly is waste of money and resources ( your plane will be grounded while in shop)
the best way to get peace of mind is to fly a lot , be easy on the engine,brakes etc . Fly at 60-65% power instead of 75% and aggressively lean the engine. if you fly frequently enough you can practically talk to the plane and she will let you know if something is not right. For the past 2 years I am doing 160-180hour hours per year and almost 40 % of those hours at night and my plane has been in the shop only during the annuals and once to install new alternator. Having a confidence in the plane and flying ability is a key to successful aircraft ownership and to get some practical use out of the plane
 
+1 For not overdoing the annuals.

I do like the idea of a mechanic checking things over briefly just after you've finished your check ride but a mandatory self imposed 50hr may be a bit much. If this timed out with a oil change, perfect!

Also, if i understand correctly, you mentioned the annual every year or 100hrs whichever first. A downside to going at 100hrs (if first) is that your annual will start moving up a month here, a month there, etc. With my wife's old plane and now the 182, it is nice to always have it at the same month each year, then the downtime is more predictable and you can use a time where you might not fly as much.

Example, we do our own oil changes. It's a great time to look at things while waiting for all that oil to drain, especially if the engine cowlings are easy to pull / replace. It's not much mechanically but you start to get a feel for what's in there and things out of the norm just sorta stand out.
 
a few things I found out in the POH
there is a Piper 50 hr inspection schedule that involves cleaning out the fuel strainers in all 3 locations and I have a recurring AD for 100 hr... o the joy of ownership
 
WannFly said:
a few things I found out in the POH
there is a Piper 50 hr inspection schedule that involves cleaning out the fuel strainers in all 3 locations and I have a recurring AD for 100 hr... o the joy of ownership
Click to expand...
Regarding the fuel strainers...are they easy to access? Being its in the POH it sounds like a Private/Commercial/ATP can return it to service (you!) - please verify that though.

Ironically, the 50hr fuel strainer cleaning is about the same time a lot of owners change oil. Unless your plane requires a oil change every 25hrs, maybe combine oil change and fuel strainers at say 40hrs? Curious what others think on that - if its even allowed?

Although our POH states oil changes at 25hrs, the seller's mechanic, our pre-buy A&P, the A&P at the flight school FBO and our current A&P all recommend going closer to 50hrs. We have been doing it right around 40hrs. Ironically that is just over 1 case per 40hrs. I put in 10qts at the oil change, any more and it just ends up on the belly out the breather. Then it seems to like 3 more quarts over the 40hrs. I need to find a 13qt case :)

We also have a 100hr recurring AD (Cessna seat rail inspection). We can not do that. However it is rather simple for the A&P/IA and I would purposely not put the plane into annual just for that one mandatory inspection AD. Now if your recurring 100hr AD required quite a bit of disassembly then ganging it up with an annual would make more sense.

I should be careful here, it is your plane and you are wanting to error to the side of having more data points more often...that's good. Obviously, mucking with things can also lead to problems so its a fine balance I guess.
 
I’m with the crowd that suggests not overdoing it on inspections.

Much better to track the time on critical items like oil, filter, plugs, mags, alternator (add to list here of things that break and leave you stranded). Change oil and filter on schedule, clean and rotate plugs every 100, inspect alternator belt every 100, IRAN mags every 500, control linkages get inspected and lubed once a year or after a detailed wash, etc.

I know it’s tempting to take something apart just because it is there but all ya do is wear out the fasteners.
 
Sinistar said:
Regarding the fuel strainers...are they easy to access? Being its in the POH it sounds like a Private/Commercial/ATP can return it to service (you!) - please verify that though.

Ironically, the 50hr fuel strainer cleaning is about the same time a lot of owners change oil. Unless your plane requires a oil change every 25hrs, maybe combine oil change and fuel strainers at say 40hrs? Curious what others think on that - if its even allowed?

Although our POH states oil changes at 25hrs, the seller's mechanic, our pre-buy A&P, the A&P at the flight school FBO and our current A&P all recommend going closer to 50hrs. We have been doing it right around 40hrs. Ironically that is just over 1 case per 40hrs. I put in 10qts at the oil change, any more and it just ends up on the belly out the breather. Then it seems to like 3 more quarts over the 40hrs. I need to find a 13qt case :)

We also have a 100hr recurring AD (Cessna seat rail inspection). We can not do that. However it is rather simple for the A&P/IA and I would purposely not put the plane into annual just for that one mandatory inspection AD. Now if your recurring 100hr AD required quite a bit of disassembly then ganging it up with an annual would make more sense.

I should be careful here, it is your plane and you are wanting to error to the side of having more data points more often...that's good. Obviously, mucking with things can also lead to problems so its a fine balance I guess.
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its a very fine line that I am trying to find here and thanks all for your inputs. I believe the oil can be changed every 50 since its a spin on filter. about the strainer, I do not think it can be done by a pilot. POH specifically says to be inspected per piper service manual in 3 diff places - carb inlet, aux fuel pump and one other location. I would verify, but right now I will rather not mess around with it. if its allowed, may be down the road, but I highly doubt its allowed unless you have A&P cert.

right now I burning about 1 qt every 12.5 hrs like a clock work, so I do have at least 1 data point, if that consumption changes that indicates something (exactly what, I don't know). my engine analyzer also provides a plethora of information, yet to figure out how to interpret them. lot to learn!!
 
Are you doing this owner assist?

Also I agree, just doing 100hr inspections makes more sense than 50hr, you're not making yourself more safe, you just making yourself feel more safe with this 50hr thing.
 
James331 said:
Are you doing this owner assist?

Also I agree, just doing 100hr inspections makes more sense than 50hr, you're not making yourself more safe, you just making yourself feel more safe with this 50hr thing.
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my A&P charges flat rate for annual, I do assist him (or one might say I increase his work)... but down the road I will get into owner assist
 
Timbeck2 said:
:eek:

What engine are we talking about here?
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This is for a O-470-U in a 182.

The first time I changed oil I put in all 12qts. Learned very quickly that 2 of those quarts didn't seem to stay very long and judging from how grungy the belly was, it must have all breathed out. So I let it sit at 10qts and bingo, takes about 12...15hrs and its down to 9qts. I add a quart and it repeats again. When we did a longer trip once I did top it off per the POH. But it seems this engine really likes the 9..10qts amount with the least waste or burn.

I hope I'm doing this right and I'm glad you called me out if its wrong.

I noticed right after this year's annual the A&P had it at 11qts (vs 12qts per POH). And it has already worked back down to about 10 again now and holding.
 
WannFly said:
my A&P charges flat rate for annual, I do assist him (or one might say I increase his work)... but down the road I will get into owner assist
Click to expand...

Being as hands on as possible in your planes mx will make you safer than even doing inspections every 10hours.
 
WannFly said:
its a very fine line that I am trying to find here and thanks all for your inputs. I believe the oil can be changed every 50 since its a spin on filter. about the strainer, I do not think it can be done by a pilot. POH specifically says to be inspected per piper service manual in 3 diff places - carb inlet, aux fuel pump and one other location. I would verify, but right now I will rather not mess around with it. if its allowed, may be down the road, but I highly doubt its allowed unless you have A&P cert.
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Okay, yeah if this involved removing something right in/around the carb or a fuel pump I would be hesitant too!!! Maybe your A&P can show you next time, tell you if you are authorized and then make the call yourself.
 
Sinistar said:
This is for a O-470-U in a 182.

The first time I changed oil I put in all 12qts. Learned very quickly that 2 of those quarts didn't seem to stay very long and judging from how grungy the belly was, it must have all breathed out. So I let it sit at 10qts and bingo, takes about 12...15hrs and its down to 9qts. I add a quart and it repeats again. When we did a longer trip once I did top it off per the POH. But it seems this engine really likes the 9..10qts amount with the least waste or burn.

I hope I'm doing this right and I'm glad you called me out if its wrong.

I noticed right after this year's annual the A&P had it at 11qts (vs 12qts per POH). And it has already worked back down to about 10 again now and holding.
Click to expand...

This is our experience with our O-470-S also. No point in filling it to the 12 line... it'll just be on the belly. We usually do 8 + the bottle of CamGuard, and then add a quart of oil in 30-35 hours or so, is what it works out to be... with no mess on the belly.
 
I am one that does an annual every 100 hours. The difference here is I am an A&P IA. So the cost is not as bad as it is for other people. Though my flight schools airplanes also are signed off as annuals instead of 100 hour inspections. I do that just in case I go to sale one. It will have an annual closer to the current time. But I also agree with the more you touch stuff the more problems can be induced. It is important to remember no person is perfect as well. The more something is touched the more likely an error will occur also. Just my opinion.
 
WannFly said:
my plane is coming up for a 50 hr inspection (i am aware its not needed by any regulation i am aware of, but i want to do it for my piece of mind anyway) and i am also planning to do a 100 hr inspection instead of annual (or whichever is earlier).

i change oil and send them for analysis every 25-30 hrs. this would be 56 hrs since last annual and about 27 since last oil change. here are the list of things i have

  • oil change / cut filter / send for oil analysis / add camguard
    • Take off both cowling and visual inspection of if anything is out of ordinary
    • Check air filter – clean/ replace as needed
    • Check fuel strainers – check and replace as needed
    • Check all spark plugs – clean / change as needed
    • Boroscope cylinders since the plugs will be out
    • Thorough inspection landing gear and struts. (just finished PPL :p)
thoughts? ideas?
Click to expand...
Go find the recommended maintenance table in the cherokeekservice manual and see what's on the 50 hr list. Section 3H.
 
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