430w Data cards

cowman

cowman

Final Approach
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I'm getting close to my first IFR cross country so it seems like now is the time to start keeping the GPS updated. Probably going with the Garmin updates, I know what I need for a card writer. I was looking for a couple of spare cards to swap back and forth. All I can find on garmin's website is a "Flight Plan data Card". Is that the same thing as the nav/terrain cards? Are they seriously asking $349 for this thing? Any better places to get one?
 
No, the flight plan data card is not the nav/terrain cards and the nav/terrain cards are not interchangable.
Here is the Nav card: https://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/main/store/product_details.jsp?id=prod850001_ca (You can find them on e-bay sometimes)

I can't find a good reference for the part number for the terrain cards but they are a different card from the Nav card.

Personally I rigged up internet at the hangar and just do them there instead of buying another card.
 
In case you're confused by chartbundle's reply, flight plan cards are their own separate entity, I believe to migrate a flight plan from one 430w to another. That's it. And I can't see them being useful at all.

On top of that, there are navdata cards and terrain cards. And those are not interchangeable, either. Easy way to think about it is that there are three types of cards and none of them are interchangeable with each other.

Having said that, Navdata and Terrain can both be updated from the same usb reader (garmin's usb adapter for garmin updates or jepp's usb adapter for jepp's updates). The cards will work in either reader, but the software is tied to the reader (ie flygarmin uses garmin's usb reader and jepp's software uses jepp's reader.

I recently bought and installed a 430w. It's a jepp-decal'd card that had jepp nav data on it. Bought the garmin usb adapter, installed garmin software on my computer, paid for the garmin subscription instead and uploaded garmin data onto it. Works fine. Garmin readers are the same price as jepp readers, but the subscriptions are cheaper, cheap enough to warrant a switch.
 
Makes sense. I mean except for a 16MB data card costing $210.... man what a racket!
 
jimmyjack said:
In case you're confused by chartbundle's reply, flight plan cards are their own separate entity, I believe to migrate a flight plan from one 430w to another. That's it. And I can't see them being useful at all.

On top of that, there are navdata cards and terrain cards. And those are not interchangeable, either. Easy way to think about it is that there are three types of cards and none of them are interchangeable with each other.

Having said that, Navdata and Terrain can both be updated from the same usb reader (garmin's usb adapter for garmin updates or jepp's usb adapter for jepp's updates). The cards will work in either reader, but the software is tied to the reader (ie flygarmin uses garmin's usb reader and jepp's software uses jepp's reader.

I recently bought and installed a 430w. It's a jepp-decal'd card that had jepp nav data on it. Bought the garmin usb adapter, installed garmin software on my computer, paid for the garmin subscription instead and uploaded garmin data onto it. Works fine. Garmin readers are the same price as jepp readers, but the subscriptions are cheaper, cheap enough to warrant a switch.
Click to expand...
I am.updating both flygarmin and jepp datacard using after market USB card readers that I have laying around ...why do u need special card readers from them?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
I am.updating both flygarmin and jepp datacard using after market USB card readers that I have laying around ...why do u need special card readers from them?
Click to expand...

You're updating a Garmin GNS 430W or 530W with a 3rd party card reader?
 
WannFly said:
I am.updating both flygarmin and jepp datacard using after market USB card readers that I have laying around ...why do u need special card readers from them?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Prove it.
 
Garmin card reader, data base update subscription through Fly.Garmin.com., that’s all I have and it works fine. I can’t see an advantage or need for any extra cards, unless one were to become damaged or corrupted for some reason. The updates take less than 5 minutes, depending on the internet speed I suppose.
 
StanN45 said:
Garmin card reader, data base update subscription through Fly.Garmin.com., that’s all I have and it works fine. I can’t see an advantage or need for any extra cards, unless one were to become damaged or corrupted for some reason. The updates take less than 5 minutes, depending on the internet speed I suppose.
Click to expand...

The advantage is not having to go to the plane for the sole reason to get the card, drag it home and update it. If it's near the end of Jan, and you know the database expires Feb 1st and you know your next flight isn't until Feb 2nd, then at some point you have to make an extra trip to the plane just to update the card.

I'm willing to wager most hangars don't have WIFI, not to mention the work of dragging along a laptop and usb reader. Not to even mention the time it takes to get there and I'm lucky at only 5 miles.
 
cowman said:
Makes sense. I mean except for a 16MB data card costing $210.... man what a racket!
Click to expand...
Yep. Back when I had a 430, I had to (try) and remember to bring the data card home after my last flight of the cycle. Really annoying.

At least the new GTN's give you two data cards. And they look like standard SD cards (although I haven't tried to use one yet).
 
jimmyjack said:
The advantage is not having to go to the plane for the sole reason to get the card, drag it home and update it. If it's near the end of Jan, and you know the database expires Feb 1st and you know your next flight isn't until Feb 2nd, then at some point you have to make an extra trip to the plane just to update the card.

I'm willing to wager most hangars don't have WIFI, not to mention the work of dragging along a laptop and usb reader. Not to even mention the time it takes to get there and I'm lucky at only 5 miles.
Click to expand...

I can see that. I'm lucky too that i'm just a few miles away from the hangar. And like donjohnston says, hopefully I can remember to bring it home with me at update time. Oh well, if I don't, that just gives me another reason to go hang out at the hangar a little more. ;-)
 
You mean you guys don't all have internet and satellite TV in your hangars 6 minutes from your house?

You're doing it wrong.

Edit: Actually I'm just paying too much
 
“Hon...I’m going to the hangar to get something...be home shortly....I’m taking the dogs with me”
The Boys love their road trips.
 
cowman said:
I'm getting close to my first IFR cross country so it seems like now is the time to start keeping the GPS updated. Probably going with the Garmin updates, I know what I need for a card writer. I was looking for a couple of spare cards to swap back and forth. All I can find on garmin's website is a "Flight Plan data Card". Is that the same thing as the nav/terrain cards? Are they seriously asking $349 for this thing? Any better places to get one?
Click to expand...


I have have a Garmin card reader and 5/430W nav& terrain cards I am looking up sale. I no longer need them. Please pm me
 
jpmaviation said:
I have have a Garmin card reader and 5/430W nav& terrain cards I am looking up sale. I no longer need them. Please pm me
Click to expand...
Am needing nav card and I guess a way to program it. New to the 430w and feel like uphill learning curve.gastephen@ Comcast.net
 
$210 for that card is more than a whole year of 430W updates when part of a package. Wow. What an absolute racket.

donjohnston said:
Yep. Back when I had a 430, I had to (try) and remember to bring the data card home after my last flight of the cycle. Really annoying.

At least the new GTN's give you two data cards. And they look like standard SD cards (although I haven't tried to use one yet).
Click to expand...

I think the GTNs use standard SD cards, but they are probably coded somehow. Anyway, you don't really need the second one. You can update ahead of time and just activate the update on your next flight. Much nicer set up.
 
N1120A said:
$210 for that card is more than a whole year of 430W updates when part of a package. Wow. What an absolute racket.



I think the GTNs use standard SD cards, but they are probably coded somehow. Anyway, you don't really need the second one. You can update ahead of time and just activate the update on your next flight. Much nicer set up.
Click to expand...
I paid like 500 for a subscription. What one are you getting for 200?
 
I bought a second data card ages ago when I bought the Jepp Skybound card writer. Current card goes in the plane. The card in my bag gets update as soon as they are available. Swap at the airport when the update becomes active. The GNS-430 data cards are some sort of non-standard CF card. The green ones are 8 MB (for non WAAS units), and the silver and orange ones are 16 MB (for WAAS units). The orange cards superceded the silver ones (parts for the old version no longer available), and require and updated Skybound programmer from Jeppesen. I don't know about the Garmin programmer, but assume it will work with either the silver or orange cards. The Garmin data is a whole lot cheaper than Jeppesen. I get the entire CONUS for the same or less than what I paid for the Eastern US with Jepp.
 
Dragging up this old discussion to ask a question:

Will the 16MB cards of the WAAS units work in a non WAAS?
 
MBDiagMan said:
Dragging up this old discussion to ask a question: Will the 16MB cards of the WAAS units work in a non WAAS?
Click to expand...

Most likely NO. Call and confirm with Garmin, but the Non-WAAS cards were smaller and not compatible with the WAAS cards.

One story I heard was database size. Not sure if that's true or not, but in a proprietary card they can do what they will.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Dragging up this old discussion to ask a question:

Will the 16MB cards of the WAAS units work in a non WAAS?
Click to expand...

I don't believe so but it has been several years since I've had to service both WAAS and non-WAAS units so I'm not as up on the specifics as I was.
 
Ravioli said:
Most likely NO. Call and confirm with Garmin, but the Non-WAAS cards were smaller and not compatible with the WAAS cards.

One story I heard was database size. Not sure if that's true or not, but in a proprietary card they can do what they will.
Click to expand...

And re-reading... you're asking reverse compatible from WASS card to Non-waas. I doubt that as well. As I said, proprietary cards. logic, forward compatible, reverse compatible, window, out the, you get it
 
IIRC, the 16 MB cards (orange or silver label) will not work in the non-WAAS GNS units. They require the 8 MB (green label) cards.
 
This whole situation with the NavData and Terrain cards on the 400/500 series Garmin is infuriating and confusing. It is difficult to a consistent "official" answer from anyone. I have submitted queries through the Garmin tech support "contact" page several times. And, they always find a way to obliquely answer every question in such a way that any question you ask is only partially answered.

As it stands now, I believe that you must have the specific card intended for the model unit you have (WAAS/Non-WAAS/VFR). None of them are officially interchangeable. I can no longer purchase one of the silver label IFRW NavData Cards. I have to buy the orange label one from Jeppesen. And, if you buy the Jeppesen subscription, you have to buy the card from Jeppesen and use their card reader. Jeppesen has 2 versions of the card reader and the newer one is not compatible with the older cards.

Are you ****ed off yet? It gets better:

Garmin Service Advisory 1455


I wish I had known this before. I'd never have bought a used GNS anything if I had.
 
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Well, the GNS-430 is 30 year old tech. The newer devices use off the shelf SD or microSD cards. When the GNS-430 was conceived, high capacity memory storage did not exist. The orange label memory cards exist now because it was no longer possible to source the parts for the silver label cards. When you think about it, 16MB is a laughable capacity for a memory card today. By 3 orders of magnitude. These cards are basically superceded technology. Kind of like the SM memory cards in my lab microscope cameras. When those cards die, it's Ebay or throw the camera away.

It looks like you need a Jepp G2 to program the orange label cards, and either a Jepp G1 or the Garmin programmer for the older cards. The G2 is apparently compatible with the Garmin databases.
 
30 years old? Where do you get that? It came out right about 2000 give or take a year or two.

I realize all the evolution of memory cards. I go back to core memory. My first real job involved writing Assembler code on a DEC PDP8 with 4K by 12 bits. As I recall, that memory board cost about $10K and when it gave trouble they would take it apart and fix it.

I was just asking if you could use a loaded data card from a 430W in a 420. After learning that the WAAS unit uses a 16MB card and a 420 uses an 8MB card, it sounds unlikely. In fact I’m now hesitant to even try to plug in one of the WAAS cards into a non WAAS units for fear of causing a problem.

The good news is that the non WAAS data subscription costs less than half that of the WAAS unit.
 
MBDiagMan said:
30 years old? Where do you get that? It came out right about 2000 give or take a year or two.
Click to expand...

While I suspect the "30 years" may be a bit of an exaggeration, it's not much. The 430 came out in 1997. So that's 24 years. Figure development started a few years earlier (considering FAA certification for such a complex and important piece of avionics), and figure even then they would want to use existing and proven memory technology (if not exactly the same form factor), and it gets pretty close to 30 years ago for the memory card technology.
 
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Okay, let’s throw in another question:

Will the same USB adapter that I use for updating my WAAS cards work for the 8MB non WAAS cards?
 
MBDiagMan said:
Okay, let’s throw in another question:

Will the same USB adapter that I use for updating my WAAS cards work for the 8MB non WAAS cards?
Click to expand...

Yes, depending on which WAAS cards and which USB adapter you have. The Garmin card writer is apparently not compatible with the orange label cards.
 
Okay, the 420 non WAAS is now installed in my Cessna. It has a green label card that i think indicates Jeppeson navdata. I have Garmin silver label cards and a reader for them for the 430 WAAS in my Mooney. I use the Garmin subscription for them.

I would like to use the Garmin subscription for the non WAAS 420. Will I need to buy a silver label Garmin card for the 420? Will the WAAS reader work with non WAAS? The card in the right is labeled as BLANK. Does this mean it only needs one card?

The Garmin site show that a 420 non WAAS download is available. I would rather buy the data from Garmin.
 
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I don’t like the way Garmin does business either, but with most of their products they are the best. In the case of buying data, Garmin is less expensive than Jep.
 
The green cards are 8MB and are for the non WAAS units. The silver and newer orange cards are 16MB are are for the WAAS units. They are not cross compatible. The Garmin card programmer will work with the silver and green cards. You need a Jepp programmer to use the orange cards. If you have the green card and a Garmin programmer you should be good to go, I think. You can confirm with Garmin. I have silver cards for my GNS-430W so I can use the Garmin programmer and Garmin subscription service.
 
Thanks Geek! You are giving me hope.

I was at a friends hangar who has an internet connection and a card adapter. I entered the plane in my Garmin account, but it wouldn’t take my Amex card. I got home and figured out I could pay with PayPal, so I got a passed that. I will see if I can download to the green card from Garmin tomorrow.
 
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