4 minutes of pure pain (student pilot gets every radio call wrong)

This pilot was 'English Proficient'.

Turning this into a foreigner thing is racist. BTW, I fly with and can't stand all the flippin Asian non-English speaking pilots in America, I'm just saying this ain't that.
 
Aw hell, Captain - they say they same thing about us when we're 'over there,' 'Damn Americans can't speak Mandarin and we have to use English . . .. "
 
The sad thing is, that there will be a school somewhere who is happy to take their money and send them for the practical test, that is conducted by a DPE who gets enough business from said school to lower the standards of "english proficient".
The sad thing is that this is sugar coated. I fly the L.A. basin, I can't understand half of the pilots are saying g around there. It was like that in Camarillo but after one of their planes went down they folded operations. I remember one day they got a clearance to taxi to run up, they taxied to the runway and said "we go now 26". I Couldn't believe what was said.
 
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ATC: "What are your intentions?"

Pilot: "To conplete my private pilot certification and then continue into my insturment rating"

ATC: "How about in the next 15 seconds?"

------

ATC: "Say altitude"

Pilot: "Flight level 3,000"

ATC: "Roger, contact mission control in Houston"
 
There is a controller at one of the local fields who I can never understand. He's not foreign, just unintelligible. It's just difficult to understand some folks on the radio.

In this case both the pilot and controller were clear as could be; this was not a language issue it was purely a comprehension issue. The controller was a bit too harsh on the guy up front. By the end the pilot deserved everything he got, but the controller started the encounter with some attitude and just got worse over time.
 
ATC: "What are your intentions?"

Pilot: "To conplete my private pilot certification and then continue into my insturment rating"

ATC: "How about in the next 15 seconds?"

------

ATC: "Say altitude"

Pilot: "Flight level 3,000"

ATC: "Roger, contact mission control in Houston"

:D

Okay time for me to share another one of my dumbass moments all in the spirit of helping others learning after all this IS the training section right?

ATC: Cessna 123, How do you hear?
Me: With my ears and my headset, why?
 
There is a controller at one of the local fields who I can never understand. He's not foreign, just unintelligible. It's just difficult to understand some folks on the radio.

There is one guy who works at KCAE who is so Southern even my Southern wife cannot understand him :)
 
I remember a controller going bonkers going into OWD. I was coming in from one direction and the controller was trying to get a guy to fall in on downwind in sequence behind me. The guy cut me off onto final. I decided I'd forgo my landing clearance but the controller went ape trying to get the guy back where he belonged. Sometimes, it's better to wait until they are on the ground and have a nice chat with them during a "please call the tower".

I remember coming into Oshkosh one year on baseleg for 36 (standard Ripon arrival) and some guy calls in on 3 mile final.

BO: Bonanza 4YF 3 mile final.
TWR: Bonanza where are you?
BO: Three mile final for the north-south runway.
TWR: Are you familiar with the RIPON procedure?
BO: What's that.
TWR: [sigh] Never mind I see you, make straight in for Runway 36 Left
BO: Which one is that.
TWR: [another sigh] It's the big one with the dashed line down the middle.

I suspect the FAA had a nice chat with him after he parked. I've seen it happen to other clowns at Oshkosh.
 
There is one guy who works at KCAE who is so Southern even my Southern wife cannot understand him :)

Well, I am here in the south so maybe that's the problem. :)

I have a friend who is better at understanding that controller due to more exposure to him, when landing at that field I try to bring him along as an interpreter. :D
 
Everyone involved here is at fault (pilot, ATC, ad CFI). I feel bad for everyone except CFI, he obviously hasn't prepped his student well enough if that's what transpired.
 
Another part of the problem. It sounded like the student wasn't writing down his clearances as he went along. Since he was having trouble keeping them straight in his head, he should have been, listening-writing-reading back-moving.
 
Another part of the problem. It sounded like the student wasn't writing down his clearances as he went along. Since he was having trouble keeping them straight in his head, he should have been, listening-writing-reading back-moving.

I'm really not sure I want a student THAT clueless putting his head down to write simple VFR clearances in the pattern. On the ground, sure, when stopped past the hold short line. I always do that myself when the airport diagram isn't stupid-simple.

Especially since it seems really clear he would have written down "left base entry" and then tried to enter on the 45 anyway.

What the student really needed was more practice, especially at busy towered airports.
 
Taxi instructions maybe, but left base to rwy xx is something you should not write down...
 
If you want to shorten up your clearances, ask ATC "is this something Im going to have to write down?" :)
 
Taxi instructions maybe, but left base to rwy xx is something you should not write down...


Timing is everything with taxi instructions. I had just touched down on Rwy 22 at KJVL last year, and tower said "Cessna 61A, left on Charlie, left on Alpha, cross 18 to Alpha 1A."

I was still rolling at a good clip, and certainly didn't have my airport diagram in my hand as I was still slowing down, so when I turned off on Charlie, I must have sounded like the kid in this thread when trying to read back my taxi instructions, as I didn't recall half is what he said.

Fortunately, after I was on C, I stopped, pulled out my diagram, and used Bob Gardner's famous "say again?" All was then well with the world.
 
Timing is everything with taxi instructions. I had just touched down on Rwy 22 at KJVL last year, and tower said "Cessna 61A, left on Charlie, left on Alpha, cross 18 to Alpha 1A."

I was still rolling at a good clip, and certainly didn't have my airport diagram in my hand as I was still slowing down, so when I turned off on Charlie, I must have sounded like the kid in this thread when trying to read back my taxi instructions, as I didn't recall half is what he said.

Fortunately, after I was on C, I stopped, pulled out my diagram, and used Bob Gardner's famous "say again?" All was then well with the world.

When I get in that position, my usual response is "left on Charlie, unfamilier, need progressive" 1 Bravo Hotel....

Seems to work... so far...:redface:
 
Another part of the problem. It sounded like the student wasn't writing down his clearances as he went along. Since he was having trouble keeping them straight in his head, he should have been, listening-writing-reading back-moving.
That helps me, although I can't always take the time to do it (and it isn't always necessary).

Radio comms, especially if the other party is talking fast or you're nervous or unfamiliar with the phraseology, can be tough to master. It always helps me to write down what was said. Not verbatim - just the nuggets to make a string of pearls that will help me to make sense out of a foreign language. The more you do that, the more everything will make sense and shortly you won't need to do it any more. Aviation talk is a different language with its own sentence structure and words. The only way to become fluent is to stumble your way through until you eventually get to the point where you don't have to think about the pieces and parts of what you're saying and you can focus instead on the information.

Timing is everything with taxi instructions. I had just touched down on Rwy 22 at KJVL last year, and tower said "Cessna 61A, left on Charlie, left on Alpha, cross 18 to Alpha 1A."

I was still rolling at a good clip, and certainly didn't have my airport diagram in my hand as I was still slowing down, so when I turned off on Charlie, I must have sounded like the kid in this thread when trying to read back my taxi instructions, as I didn't recall half is what he said.

Fortunately, after I was on C, I stopped, pulled out my diagram, and used Bob Gardner's famous "say again?" All was then well with the world.
When I was a 5 year old boy we were stationed in Naples. I didn't know a word of Italian, and Neapolitans can't say a single word without saying 200 words real fast. For the next 4 years the only words I ever needed to say to get me out of a jam was "Io non capisco". Worked like a charm. Suddenly the words slowed down, gestures became more expressive and understandable, and information could be exchanged and turned into knowledge.

In my opinion the CFI and student were both at fault. Either of them could have fixed this situation if they had only stepped up to their responsibilities. But neither the CFI nor the student fixed their issues before this flight, and so by the time this recording starts the only person on the planet that had the experience, the ability and the responsibility to make the best out of this bad situation was the tower.

Tower knew that this pilot wasn't comprehending the words that were being said. For reasons that we don't know and weren't relevant by then, this pilot wasn't able to follow simple instructions on that day. So knowing that people die when pilots do stupid things, the tower should have exercised his greater experience and his vastly more capable understanding of the situation and dialed down the drama. I'm sure he would have loved for this pilot to understand and comply with his instructions, but you deal with people where they are - not where you want them to be. There's always time to humiliate and berate people later - as in after we get the mentally impaired guy in the dangerous machine safely parked and away from areas where he is a danger to himself and others. But right then wasn't the appropriate time to indulge in some student bashing. It obviously didn't help anything at all.

It feels good to intimidate others. It makes you feel superior when you point out their faults. That obviously wasn't working in this situation, and yet the tower never changed his tone or the way he approached the problem. The sad thing is that this tower guy probably retells this story to his buddies over beers and everybody gets a great laugh out of it, and he'll do the same thing the next time he comes across a student that is obviously in over his head.

It reminds me of American tourists overseas that believe that repeating the same words louder and with more feeling will somehow miraculously make them more understandable.
 
I think the control knew he had a new nervous pilot and decided to show his "superiorness". He could have made the whole drill much easier for the kid and saved time . Not very bright. Years ago I stated" Scranton, mooney, one four whiskey , downwind for......." They replied " ok , call final. I did and they asked for landing light. I turned it on and they were unable to see me. Shortly after touching down, ( snowing pretty good and I was very nervous, hard to see, but soooo glad to be down and alive! .) I observed on the hangar that I was up the river a bit at loch haven. I called and they said " not a problem , we've already called them. Your fine." I went inside and thanked them again and they stated it was not the first time, glad you made it. I should have not flown into this situation. It was stupid. They reacted as professionals helping a hick. Never forgot it.
 
That controller was a jerk.

It's obviously the pilot is a student or is inexperienced. It's easy to sit in the air condition and chew on someone. Hard to fly an airplane while being chewed out.
 
Taxi instructions maybe, but left base to rwy xx is something you should not write down...

Unless you are so inexperienced that you can't remember it. Know your limitations. If you can remember "Enter left base for 23", well maybe you shouldn't be flying at all. But it is pretty easy to scribble "LB 23" on your piece of paper.
 
That helps me, although I can't always take the time to do it (and it isn't always necessary).

If it isn't necessary, you're sure you can remember, then no, don't write it down.

Radio comms, especially if the other party is talking fast or you're nervous or unfamiliar with the phraseology, can be tough to master. It always helps me to write down what was said. Not verbatim - just the nuggets to make a string of pearls that will help me to make sense out of a foreign language.

The best option is to learn how to communicate properly to begin with. At any given phase of a flight, there are certain types of exchanges you can expect. Once you've learned them, it's easy to be a part of the dialog.

Bob Gardner has a very good book entitled "Say again, please". If you want to learn from actual pilot/ATC recorded communications try the Squawk VFR audio CD course (http://www.goldsealgroundschool.com/squawk-vfr.htm).
 
There is a controller at one of the local fields who I can never understand. He's not foreign, just unintelligible. It's just difficult to understand some folks on the radio.

I remember a night flight with my CFI when I was working on my PP. We called asking for clearance through the Glenview NAS. Between the clipped military style, her incredibly southern accent, the 15 year old overhead speaker, and the not quite even grind of the engine and prop, I had absolutely no idea what she said.

I looked at my CFI and he said to respond with our tail number. It took me a second to realize he had no idea what she said either.
 
This strikes me as a CFI that didn't properly prepare his student. Seems like he had never been to this airport before and didn't know what he was doing, or at the least hadn't been instructed on how to react to different instructions from the tower. Whenever I hear about a solo at 10 hours or less this is what I think of. Someone who knows just enough to get themselves into trouble.

My CFI flew with me to each destination that was going to be used for my solos, and when he did he pretended to be an idiot passenger and let me screw up JUST enough to make sure that I'd remember my screwups. The first time we flew to Montgomery field together I got a straight in clearance to land, pointed at a runway that I could see and asked him if that was the field. He just shrugged. He waited about 30 seconds after I started turning towards that runway to say "my airplane" and tell me to look at my chart again. "where are you looking at?"

"uhh, MCAS Miramar."

DOH!

Needless to say I didn't make that mistake again. This sounds like a lack of training. The student cant hear what's being said because he's way behind and trying to keep up. He's way behind because his CFI didn't prepare him.
 
Another part of the problem. It sounded like the student wasn't writing down his clearances as he went along. Since he was having trouble keeping them straight in his head, he should have been, listening-writing-reading back-moving.

Writing ATC transmissions is absurd. Maybe when your a student pilot, fine. But a certificated pilot should have enough situational awareness to be able to handle the radios like a conversation. I write down clearances and ATIS...that's it. There is no need to clog the system with your delayed read backs whilst you log the conversation one handed bumping along. By design ATC never gives you that much info. If they need to give you a lot they say, 'advise ready to copy'. That's your que to pull out your pencil. Otherwise you don't need it. Practice paying attention and you'll soon find it's not too hard.
 
Writing ATC transmissions is absurd. Maybe when your a student pilot, fine. But a certificated pilot should have enough situational awareness to be able to handle the radios like a conversation. I write down clearances and ATIS...that's it. There is no need to clog the system with your delayed read backs whilst you log the conversation one handed bumping along. By design ATC never gives you that much info. If they need to give you a lot they say, 'advise ready to copy'. That's your que to pull out your pencil. Otherwise you don't need it. Practice paying attention and you'll soon find it's not too hard.


The pilot didn't state it, but he was obviously a student pilot.
 
Whenever I hear about a solo at 10 hours or less this is what I think of. Someone who knows just enough to get themselves into trouble.
It can be done, but not very often. The couple times I've done it the students were more than ready. I make sure they know how to land on all the runways at our airport and enter the pattern from multiple directions. Luckily ATC shakes things up enough to where there is plenty of opportunity in training.

I also make sure they know HOW to get to another airport that is uncontrolled and how to talk on the radio there, enter the pattern, and land.

I figure it's a long shot that the home class C would get shutdown while they're soloing but it's certainly possible so I want to make sure they have options if that happens.

The thing is you just don't always know how someone is going to handle things when you're not in the airplane. The whole point of early supervised solos is to kick them out of the nest and see how things go, to a degree.
 
Writing ATC transmissions is absurd. Maybe when your a student pilot, fine. But a certificated pilot should have enough situational awareness to be able to handle the radios like a conversation.

Well, yes. I think it is a very novice student pilot that we're discussing here.
 
That was painful, but really the tower should have helped. If any admonishment is necessary, get the guy on the ground first and try to explainthings to him. But yes.... Gotta blame this on the cfi.
 
This atc should be fired! Its the worst most primitive minded traffic controlling I have ever heard. He is clearly bullying this pilot and utterly clueless at the nervousness in the pilots voice. To make things worse he is creating pointless arguments with comments like "I don't know why you... you're suppose to be...". What point is this atc trying to make here? All he is doing is making matters worse and creating a more dangerous situation by not only taking the pilots mind off of flying and on onto the pilot having to explain himself but he is also creating stress for the pilot. Has this moronic atc never heard of I'm SAFE because he just created the 'S' and the 'E'?
Not too old a thread :D

Welcome.
 
This atc should be fired! Its the worst most primitive minded traffic controlling I have ever heard. He is clearly bullying this pilot and utterly clueless at the nervousness in the pilots voice. To make things worse he is creating pointless arguments with comments like "I don't know why you... you're suppose to be...". What point is this atc trying to make here? All he is doing is making matters worse and creating a more dangerous situation by not only taking the pilots mind off of flying and on onto the pilot having to explain himself but he is also creating stress for the pilot. Has this moronic atc never heard of I'm SAFE because he just created the 'S' and the 'E'?
Welcome to POA. You’ll fit right in…
 
Not to worry, he's probably retired by now.
nope. alive and well in the KFMY tower, and still has a short fuse. not to defend him, he has gotten riled at me a couple of times, but FMY is a very busy airport under the class c airspace for KRSW and only a couple of miles north of the surface area of KRSW. someone not knowing what they are doing or where they are going can get dangerous real quick.
 
Agree 1000%

And it ain't racist, I could care less what color you are, if you can't read, write, speak and understand English, you have ZERO business in the sky.
Had a flight commander from rural Arkansas. Whenever he led a formation, everyone in the formation logged a comm jamming training event. One time over France, the controller told us to squawk emergency because he couldn't understand a word the flight lead was saying.
 
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