3rd Class SI stuck in HIMS

[BigShark]

I got a boating while intoxicated July 4th 2018. Applied for my first medical September 2018 deferred and required to do HIMS. I am now a private pilot and on my 3rd 6 month special issuance medical. However doesnt look like they are letting me out of HIMS anytime soon. "Original letter said 6 months". I'm tired of the 3hr drives to the Doctor paying 300$ cash on top of the monthly 600$ blood draws. Not to mention I don't have time to jump when they say jump.

Out of frustration im googling what to do and im reading I might be eligible for a BasicMed. Is that true? Do I apply and tell the HIMS and Dr. to kick rocks? Is it really that easy? Where do I go for a solid answer? Who do I hire?

 

[jstone]

Yes, you are eligible for basic med. you should chat with your AME and tell him you are going to transition to basic med. you just have to see any state licensed physician in your state and you are good to go. Keep in mind basic med will not allow you to exercise commercial privileges. Isn’t it amazing how much HIMS cost? Probably the reason the federal air surgeon is making it a lifelong program now. He wants to keep his henchmen’s pockets lined with plenty of money.

 

[BigShark]

It is outrageous in cost and time. Ive done what they asked and I've gotten my private pilot. One of my biggest accomplishments . I still find it hard to believe this is going to be that easy considering the hell I've gone thru. Why hasn't anyone told me about this?

 

[bbchien]

Crazy. I get testing done @ ~70/ month. 300/ visit is a tad high.
But the real question is why was a single OWI HIMS...or was it “abuse” (it’s in your letter)......and not dependency?

At very least to go to basic, you must first fully comply with the six month issuance until the cert expires......

 

[allPrimes]

I've just started my HIMS adventure (haven't even gotten my denial letter yet from the FAA) but my HIMS AME has already suggested that once I jump through the hoops, I should just go basic med. That suits me fine, to be honest. The only real limiting factor for me would be the inability to fly into CN (because it'd be sweet to fly the Cassiar to AK!) but the headaches of the continued HIMS program seem onerous. Also, $600/month for testing? Seems incredibly high! I've gotten myself on a twice/month UA schedule (10-drug panel and EtG testing) for $150/month. Granted UA is different than a blood draw but wow. $600. Yeah, I'd bail out of HIMS as soon as I could have!

I bolded the above because not all HIMS docs are trying to line their pockets. The HIMS docs that frequent these forums are terribly helpful and the two that I've reached out to since I found out I'd be going into HIMS have been so as well.

 

[bbchien]

I just got called by a colleage of mine who is managing the SI for Coronary disease of a neurologist (known to both of us). The file is mired in mismanagement, and the pilot has to get a new stress treadmill nuclear because FAA didn't "get to it" in time....

The situation is in dire need of improvement. It's not "just" HIMS.

 

[BigShark]

I just got called by a colleage of mine who is managing the SI for Coronary disease of a neurologist (known to both of us). The file is mired in mismanagement, and the pilot has to get a new stress treadmill nuclear because FAA didn't "get to it" in time....

The situation is in dire need of improvement. It's not "just" HIMS.

Crazy. I get testing done @ ~70/ month. 300/ visit is a tad high.
But the real question is why was a single OWI HIMS...or was it “abuse” (it’s in your letter)......and not dependency?

At very least to go to basic, you must first fully comply with the six month issuance until the cert expires......

I just got called by a colleage of mine who is managing the SI for Coronary disease of a neurologist (known to both of us). The file is mired in mismanagement, and the pilot has to get a new stress treadmill nuclear because FAA didn't "get to it" in time....

The situation is in dire need of improvement. It's not "just" HIMS.

Crazy. I get testing done @ ~70/ month. 300/ visit is a tad high.
But the real question is why was a single OWI HIMS...or was it “abuse” (it’s in your letter)......and not dependency?

At very least to go to basic, you must first fully comply with the six month issuance until the cert expires......

7/4/2018 Arrested OWI on a boat .147


8/31/2018 Had my first medical exam with AME and was deferred to OKC.


12/14/2018 received letter that I had 60 days to provide all arrest documents etc. or I would be denied.


1/29/2019 Received letter that they wanted more information.


4/8/19 – Received Denial letter from the FAA need to engage with a HIMS AME for 6 months or more and re apply for a Special Issuance, or send an appeal letter which I did. (advised not to do it, but I did)


7/15/19 – My first visit with my HIMS AME and blood testing began. No psyc, or counseling required.


11/22/2019 – My first Medical arrived in the mail. “This letter supersedes any prior authorizations or denials.” I had appealed the original denial letter dated 4/8/19 and in my denial I mentioned while I waited I would start the HIMS program. My HIMS AME was confused how I received my medical. He hadn’t provided any documentation to the FAA of my testing or his findings. He called them to verify and they stated that I “Seemed like a good guy” so they gave me my medical. This medical was signed in OKC by David Obrien and was dated back to my exam date of 8/31/2018 set to expire 2/29/20. Still in the HIMS program for up to 5years.


2/29/20 – Received my second 3rd class SI signed off again in OKC. The system wouldn’t allow my HIMS doctor to print it off. Had to come from OKC.


August 2020 – Had my 6 month follow up with HIMS AME and he gave me another 6 month medical signed by him, and sent a letter to the FAA in my favor.


9/18/20 – I message my HIMS AME that I would like to speak with him about switching to a basic med. He tells me I am under supervision of the FAA and I cant do that.

• I call the FAA medical division and am told “that they THINK I am ineligible for a basic medical sense I have been denied a medical in the past. Offered for me to leave a voicemail for someone in the BasicMed division. IT seems like the people that answer the phone can only tell you when documents have arrived etc.

This has been a roller coaster ride. Not sure how it went from 6 months to oh wait here is medical early now do 5 years. I would of rather stuck to the 6 month deal My HIMS AME has never seen this happen before.

Who do I get to help me? Can I really go basic med?

 

[jstone]

All the information to go basicmed is on AOPA’s website. Look it up. Whoever said you can’t go basicmed is a ****ing idiot. But then again that is expected from the scumbag bureaucrats of the faa. Which state is your HIMS AME in?

 

[BigShark]

All the information to go basicmed is on AOPA’s website. Look it up. Whoever said you can’t go basicmed is a ****ing idiot. But then again that is expected from the scumbag bureaucrats of the faa. Which state is your HIMS AME in?

I don't think its that simple. Surely I cant tell the FAA I am not doing anymore testing I am going the Basic Med route. Then they will revoke my medical and I am sure I will not be eligible at that point. I am sure I have to do this in a certain order and will need help.

 

[allPrimes]

...[the FAA] stated that I “Seemed like a good guy” so they gave me my medical.

This is awesome. I need some of that juju!

 

[Volzalum]

I think all you have to do is complete whatever is required for your current SI, and then just not renew it. The BasicMed requirements are if you’ve ever been denied then you have to get a 3rd class with applicable SI’s to demonstrate you are eligible. Then once you have that, complete the BasicMed application with your physician (doesn’t have to be your AME) and it is valid for 4 years unless you receive one or more of the 3 disqualify conditions. Once your SI expires, you should not get a disqualification from flying from the FAA because you are not applying for another 3rd Class with SI.

 

[Palmpilot]

I think all you have to do is complete whatever is required for your current SI, and then just not renew it. The BasicMed requirements are if you’ve ever been denied then you have to get a 3rd class with applicable SI’s to demonstrate you are eligible. Then once you have that, complete the BasicMed application with your physician (doesn’t have to be your AME) and it is valid for 4 years unless you receive one or more of the 3 disqualify conditions. Once your SI expires, you should not get a disqualification from flying from the FAA because you are not applying for another 3rd Class with SI.

I'm not sure. In post #4 (excerpted below), @bbchien seems to be saying that you have to wait for the medical certificate itself to expire. Hopefully he will correct me if I have misunderstood.

...At very least to go to basic, you must first fully comply with the six month issuance until the cert expires......

 

[jstone]

I'm not sure. In post #4 (excerpted below), @bbchien seems to be saying that you have to wait for the medical certificate itself to expire. Hopefully he will correct me if I have misunderstood.

Once you hit the end of the 6 month medical certificate you just elect not to renew it and go basic med from now on.

 

[Volzalum]

I'm not sure. In post #4 (excerpted below), @bbchien seems to be saying that you have to wait for the medical certificate itself to expire. Hopefully he will correct me if I have misunderstood.

ok. I thought the SI was for 6 months and that when it expired, so did his medical.

 

[Volzalum]

And he can go get BasicMed now. He can have both BasicMed and a 3rd class at the same time. Just once he gets it then his clock for BasicMed renewal starts.

 

[BigShark]

Is it when my 6 month medical expires? Or when my authorization expires. My first medical said this Authorization is good till August 2025.

 

[jstone]

@Brad Z had a document that will explain the transition. I can’t find it in my computer at the moment.

 

[Brad Z]

@Brad Z had a document that will explain the transition. I can’t find it in my computer at the moment.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...ngo-AFX-1-2 - (2018) Legal Interpretation.pdf

 

[Clearofclouds12344]

Is it when my 6 month medical expires? Or when my authorization expires. My first medical said this Authorization is good till August 2025.

I’m curious on this aspect as well, is it when the medical expires typically every 6 months for Alcohol related S.I or when the authorization expires?

 

[KeepWatch]

Was your diagnosis abuse or dependence? That will matter bigtime is my guess

 

[Clearofclouds12344]

Was your diagnosis abuse or dependence? That will matter bigtime is my guess

For mine abuse

 

[Volzalum]

Based on what @Brad Z posted, it is based on the SI Medical, not the longer FAA Authorization provided the airman does not seek another renewal.

 

[bbchien]

For mine abuse

5 years of monitoring and then release, if the SI is dated after Jan 1;
2 years of monitoring and then release, if the SI is dated B4 Dec31, 2019.

 

[SneakyGrouse]

I know I’m new here, but I think the error many make with medicals is to seek out a framer to build their entire house, vs seeking a experienced contractor who can coordinate everything, including the framers.

The AME is a framer.

What you should first seek is a qualified lawyer versed and experienced in FAA matters.

Do you have a copy of the FAAs notes on your airman’s medical file?

 

[Mason]

What you should first seek is a qualified lawyer versed and experienced in FAA matters.

I don't think so.

 

[SneakyGrouse]

I don't think so.

Can you name me one AME who has ever had the airman sign a release and got the FAAs notes on the airman for them, and advised said airman on a course of action based upon those notes?

There are some good AMEs out there, however their knowledge and level and depth of interactions with the FAA and NTSB are very low in comparison to a aviation lawyer, as are the number of cards a AME can play for you in their deck compared to the lawyer.

To each their own, however a few words of guidance from a good lawyer would have saved a ton of headache for many a airman.

 

[bbchien]

Uh.....how little you know. You can ask on this board. Many are here.

 

[SneakyGrouse]

Uh.....how little you know. You can ask on this board. Many are here.

So part of your SOP is to have the airman sign a release for you to freedom of information the complete airman medical file from the FAA to help you choose a course of action?

 

[allPrimes]

So part of your SOP is to have the airman sign a release for you to freedom of information the complete airman medical file from the FAA to help you choose a course of action?

No idea what Dr. Bruce's SOP is like, but the first thing my HIMS AME (recommended to me by Dr. Bruce) asked me to do was to sign the FAA Medical records release form to have my records sent to his office. I'm also terribly new to the HIMS program (haven't even received my letter yet) but my understanding is that the FAA tells you what they want to see and the HIMS AME works with you during the process to make sure you're on track.

 

[SneakyGrouse]

No idea what Dr. Bruce's SOP is like, but the first thing my HIMS AME (recommended to me by Dr. Bruce) asked me to do was to sign the FAA Medical records release form to have my records sent to his office. I'm also terribly new to the HIMS program (haven't even received my letter yet) but my understanding is that the FAA tells you what they want to see and the HIMS AME works with you during the process to make sure you're on track.

Good on him if that’s what he did, everyone is unique, from what I have seen letting a lawyer take the reigns turns out best.

Whatever one feel best with, I just feel lawyer has more experience with the inside game and also has less masters as they are not beholden to the FAA to the same degree as a AME

 

[allPrimes]

I feel like when layers get involved, things turn to ****. Your mileage may vary.

 

[SneakyGrouse]

I fee like when layers get involved, things turn to ****. Your mileage may vary.

And medical blunders are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US

(https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/new...rs_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us)

Whenever ether a doc or lawyer is involved, your chances of fukery are high lol

 

[BigShark]

Back to the original question. When I asked my HIMS AME if I can do basic med he said no. Who can I hire to help me out? Sounds like I have been paying for HIMS over a year now and jumping when they say jump and I havent had too. Whats my first step???

 

[allPrimes]

Back to the original question. When I asked my HIMS AME if I can do basic med he said no. Who can I hire to help me out? Sounds like I have been paying for HIMS over a year now and jumping when they say jump and I havent had too. Whats my first step???

@Brad Z Posted a link to the legal requirements above. Reads to me like you wait until whatever 6-month SI you're on on now is expired and follow the steps outlined. In other words, if you just your certificate re-upped for 6months on September 1, then your SI expires at the end of February 2021. After that you can go Basic Med. The authorization for a SI is different from the actual SI.

Take the docs you find online to your HIMS AME and say "told ya so." Use your Google Fu to find the exact hoops you have to jump through to get on Basic Med. I've seen them on the FAA site so they're not that hard to find.

EDIT: Here ya go: https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/

 

[BigShark]

Sounds like I'll start working on finding a local doctor. Wonder if I can forfeit the medical I have early? I'm tired of fighting with my GF cause she ordered me erbs and cheese at subway or not eating habichi cause I'm afraid of poppi seeds. Im covered in chiggers at the moment and scared to death to use rubbing alcohol or some old steroid cream

 

[SneakyGrouse]

Sounds like I'll start working on finding a local doctor. Wonder if I can forfeit the medical I have early? I'm tired of fighting with my GF cause she ordered me erbs and cheese at subway or not eating habichi cause I'm afraid of poppi seeds. Im covered in chiggers at the moment and scared to death to use rubbing alcohol or some old steroid cream

I actually loled at that!

Sent ya a PM too

 

[Volzalum]

Sounds like I'll start working on finding a local doctor. Wonder if I can forfeit the medical I have early? I'm tired of fighting with my GF cause she ordered me erbs and cheese at subway or not eating habichi cause I'm afraid of poppi seeds. Im covered in chiggers at the moment and scared to death to use rubbing alcohol or some old steroid cream

It appears you have to complete all of the requirements for your current SI (not forfeit it) or the FAA will send you a denial. If you do not apply for a new one, the FAA has nothing to deny. You can get your BasicMed as soon as you find a doctor to complete it, take the online test, and fill out the paperwork.

 

[jstone]

Can you name me one AME who has ever had the airman sign a release and got the FAAs notes on the airman for them, and advised said airman on a course of action based upon those notes?

There are some good AMEs out there, however their knowledge and level and depth of interactions with the FAA and NTSB are very low in comparison to a aviation lawyer, as are the number of cards a AME can play for you in their deck compared to the lawyer.

To each their own, however a few words of guidance from a good lawyer would have saved a ton of headache for many a airman.

Of course the HIMS AME will Not decide on the best course of action even after reviewing your agency file. They request your files so you can start in their HIMS program. If a HIMS AME reviewed your file and decided on the best course of action a lot of people wouldn’t have to do HIMS. The HIMS program is a corrupt program that puts way to much money in a lot of people’s pockets. It’s sickening that the airlines have weaponized mental health against some of their pilots. Like how steve Dickson had delta pay 75k to Diagnose one of the pilots with a BS bipolar diagnosis. It’s all BS and it’s all about the money.

 

[jstone]

Back to the original question. When I asked my HIMS AME if I can do basic med he said no. Who can I hire to help me out? Sounds like I have been paying for HIMS over a year now and jumping when they say jump and I havent had too. Whats my first step???

Your HIMS AME sounds like a huge *******. He obviously doesn’t want to tell you to go basic med either because he’s incompetent or just wants to keep overcharging you.

 

[Half Fast]

Can you name me one AME who has ever had the airman sign a release and got the FAAs notes on the airman for them, and advised said airman on a course of action based upon those notes?

There are some good AMEs out there, however their knowledge and level and depth of interactions with the FAA and NTSB are very low in comparison to a aviation lawyer, as are the number of cards a AME can play for you in their deck compared to the lawyer.

To each their own, however a few words of guidance from a good lawyer would have saved a ton of headache for many a airman.

Could you please provide a few examples of successful medical cases handled by attorneys?