3rd Class Medical and Special Issuance Rejection

Tennyson

Tennyson

Filing Flight Plan
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The Wolf of Walmart
I met with my AME before I started dual instruction for my private license. I'm now ~11 hours in and have received a rejection for my 3rd class, as well as consideration for special issuanc in the same letter. The issues cited were insomnia, depression, anxiety, and bipolar.

I'm confident I have enough supporting documentation to prove that all of those were circumstantial due to night shift, and some other extenuating circumstances- obviously bipolar is the big one.

The word 'diagnosed' (also in quotes in the record) with bipolar was mentioned offhand in some records from my GP, in reference to something another doctor had said over a decade ago in one of the extenuating circumstances. I don't believe I was ever diagnosed, I've never taken meds for it and, had I been pursuing my license then, I would have never said anything so speculative and tenuous to my GP.

I'm still trying to get records and a statement from the doctor from whom the bipolar thing originated. I have a perfectly high functioning and accomplished life, no meds, and I know my CFI will write me a glowing statement.

I'm wondering, while I am in the process of building my appeal with the NTSB, if anyone has any experience or advice with this situation, or an idea of what to expect. I would be devastated if I couldn't fly anymore .
 
This is one of the longest roadies possible. FAA has to be absolutely certain that you are not even vaguely bipolar.

You are looking at two years and 5 figures for the accredited experts known to FAA....still much cheaper than NTSB which will run six figures...:(

B....
 
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bbchien said:
This is one of the longest roadies possible. FAA has to be absolutely certain that you are not even vaguely bipolar.

You are looking at two years and 5 figures for the accredited experts known to FAA....still much cheaper than NRtSB which will run six figures...:(

b....
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Tough to hear, but thanks for the info. Can you explain more about the accredited experts part? Do you think a statement from the original doctor not enough?
 
Tennyson said:
Tough to hear, but thanks for the info. Can you explain more about the accredited experts part? Do you think a statement from the original doctor not enough?
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Ugh…I feel for you on this one. It’s going to be tough. First on the original doctor point. I would be surprised if you could find a doctor that would admit, in writing, that they were wrong. As far as accredited experts go, you will need a HIMS AME. Like your regular AME, but more qualified in these scenarios. They will set you up with a HIMS psychiatrist and psychologist ( ones known to the FAA to have experience in this field, and trusted by the FAA). You will have a battery of tests to determine whether any of your “diagnosis's” exist and some to what level. Then they will write a report and recommendation to the FAA. Loooong process and verrrrry expensive, unfortunately. @bbchien is in the know on this subject. If he says it’s gonna be tough, believe him. He did not, however, say it was impossible, which should be encouraging for you.
 
RussS said:
Ugh…I feel for you on this one. It’s going to be tough. First on the original doctor point. I would be surprised if you could find a doctor that would admit, in writing, that they were wrong.
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I have not been able to accomplish that yet. I don’t know if it’s possible short of getting an attorney involved which I haven’t tried. In my case now I’m not going after medicals so I’m not going to pay an attorney, but that’s not the point. I’m convinced that digitizing records has had a catastrophic effect on accuracy. It certainly has resulted in inaccurate information multiplying throughout cyberspace.

In the case of my mother it’s far worse, they have a laundry list of conditions in her record that she does not have, including paralysis of one arm, which she has never even had transiently. When we brought this to the attention of the staff, they agreed it was wrong and said they’d fix it but of course they haven’t. It makes me wonder if there is some kind of Medicare fraud going on. Do doctors get paid more for a visit if they list more conditions?
 
Tennyson said:
I met with my AME before I started dual instruction for my private license. I'm now ~11 hours in and have received a rejection for my 3rd class, as well as consideration for special issuanc in the same letter. The issues cited were insomnia, depression, anxiety, and bipolar.

I'm confident I have enough supporting documentation to prove that all of those were circumstantial due to night shift, and some other extenuating circumstances- obviously bipolar is the big one.

The word 'diagnosed' (also in quotes in the record) with bipolar was mentioned offhand in some records from my GP, in reference to something another doctor had said over a decade ago in one of the extenuating circumstances. I don't believe I was ever diagnosed, I've never taken meds for it and, had I been pursuing my license then, I would have never said anything so speculative and tenuous to my GP.

I'm still trying to get records and a statement from the doctor from whom the bipolar thing originated. I have a perfectly high functioning and accomplished life, no meds, and I know my CFI will write me a glowing statement.

I'm wondering, while I am in the process of building my appeal with the NTSB, if anyone has any experience or advice with this situation, or an idea of what to expect. I would be devastated if I couldn't fly anymore .
Click to expand...

If you believe you will prevail with an appeal with the NTSB you are nuts.
 
RussS said:
Ugh…I feel for you on this one. It’s going to be tough. First on the original doctor point. I would be surprised if you could find a doctor that would admit, in writing, that they were wrong. As far as accredited experts go, you will need a HIMS AME. Like your regular AME, but more qualified in these scenarios. They will set you up with a HIMS psychiatrist and psychologist ( ones known to the FAA to have experience in this field, and trusted by the FAA). You will have a battery of tests to determine whether any of your “diagnosis's” exist and some to what level. Then they will write a report and recommendation to the FAA. Loooong process and verrrrry expensive, unfortunately. @bbchien is in the know on this subject. If he says it’s gonna be tough, believe him. He did not, however, say it was impossible, which should be encouraging for you.
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HIMS, got it. If I can't get anything substantial from that doctor then it sounds like that is my route. For what it's worth, I don't believe there was ever a diagnosis so I won't be asking him to admit any fault, just to clarify that it wasn't ever diagnosed- but we will see how it goes I guess. All that being said, it also sounds like this endeavor will be prohibitively expensive if I can't hack it myself. I've only saved about enough to get me through my private
 
Also perhaps see my FAA medical page for some ideas and options you might consider in the meantime.

http://tinyurl.com/faaMedicalInfo

Dr. Chien is one of the experts on this. And if he says 5 figures, it is likely 5 figures, though spread over several years. Not an enormous amount compared to getting an ATP, but equivalent to a few private certificates.
 
Out of curiosity, how did the FAA find out about an offhand remark about something you weren't diagnosed with?
 
From post #1 it sounds like it was mentioned in some of the records that the AME may have been reviewing. But the OP knows for sure …
 
Lindberg said:
Out of curiosity, how did the FAA find out about an offhand remark about something you weren't diagnosed with?
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During a particularly awful couple years of my life, I saw a doctor about the beating my mental/physical/emotional health was taking. Bipolar was provisionally mentioned, and was changed to ‘adjustment disorder’ after subsequent visits. That was a decade ago. I referenced that in an unrelated visit to my GP somewhat more recently (but before I started flying,) perhaps with inadequate detail, and it made it into the notes that went to the FAA/AME.

As an update for anyone interested: I visited my doctor again and got a statement recommending that bipolar be removed from my records, and a statement from my CFI detailing my performance in the cockpit. I sent those, along with my personal statement, to my AME for his approval before I send it to the NTSB. Wish me luck
 
Tennyson said:
During a particularly awful couple years of my life, I saw a doctor about the beating my mental/physical/emotional health was taking. Bipolar was provisionally mentioned, and was changed to ‘adjustment disorder’ after subsequent visits. That was a decade ago. I referenced that in an unrelated visit to my GP somewhat more recently (but before I started flying,) perhaps with inadequate detail, and it made it into the notes that went to the FAA/AME.
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But why did those records go to the FAA in the first place?
 
Not sure I understand the question. Isn't it just procedural that your AME requests your medical records?
 
Lindberg said:
No. If they ask for records or notes from another doctor, it's always been for something specific.
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Well that wouldn't surprise me. It could have been because of the medication I've been prescribed because of my back. Why do you ask?
 
Recently looked at my patient portal website noticed the doctors noted everything I said to her. While none of it really means much regarding the FAA I need to correct them they had a list of medication which I haven't had an active prescription for 3 years they listed as active. You have to be careful what you say to doctors now days they type it right into the computer as you speak to them.
 
Just wondering what’s the difference in certified and non certified diagnosis?
 
Lindberg said:
No. If they ask for records or notes from another doctor, it's always been for something specific.
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Bad supposition.....
The Standard for psychiatry is “any and all”. Why? Psychiatry is about global behavior, and so all record is relevant.

Correct, that there man be more problems than Bipolar.....but that in itself is HUGE enough.....
 
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bbchien said:
Bad supposition.....
The Standard for psychiatry is “any and all”. Why? Psychiatry is about global behavior, and so all record is relevant.

Correct, that there man be more problems than Bipolar.....but that in itself is HUGE enough.....
Click to expand...
You apparently missed the context of the question I was responding to:

"Isn't it just procedural that your AME requests your medical records?"

That is not normal procedure for any medical I have ever had. The only time an AME has asked for any medical records from me is because of a specific disclosed condition. The scope of such a request is a separate question.
 
And you missed my response as well, but no matter. The STANDARD for psychiatry is “any and all”. I won’t type out the rest again.
‘Tis a good thing that you clearly have never had to engage the psychiatry division, it’s a bear.

the OP clearly presents PSYCHIATRY issues, yes?

The FAA demand letter (for psychiatry) says, “within 60 days, your complete medical record or we will, deny your application.....”. It can hardly be clearer. We’re I on the PC, and not on the iPad, it excerpt one for you. OP’s AME clearly got the memo......
 
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Tennyson said:
I met with my AME before I started dual instruction for my private license. I'm now ~11 hours in and have received a rejection for my 3rd class, as well as consideration for special issuanc in the same letter. The issues cited were insomnia, depression, anxiety, and bipolar.

I'm confident I have enough supporting documentation to prove that all of those were circumstantial due to night shift, and some other extenuating circumstances- obviously bipolar is the big one.

The word 'diagnosed' (also in quotes in the record) with bipolar was mentioned offhand in some records from my GP, in reference to something another doctor had said over a decade ago in one of the extenuating circumstances. I don't believe I was ever diagnosed, I've never taken meds for it and, had I been pursuing my license then, I would have never said anything so speculative and tenuous to my GP.

I'm still trying to get records and a statement from the doctor from whom the bipolar thing originated. I have a perfectly high functioning and accomplished life, no meds, and I know my CFI will write me a glowing statement.

I'm wondering, while I am in the process of building my appeal with the NTSB, if anyone has any experience or advice with this situation, or an idea of what to expect. I would be devastated if I couldn't fly anymore .
Click to expand...
Wow! You have bigger hoops to jump through than I do.
You probably need to get examined by a prominent medical facility to get a definitive response to that psychological issue.
I had open heart surgery, triple bypass and cataracts (all resolved). The FAA gave me a Special Issuance Class III.
I didn't give up. You shouldn't either.
 
I also am confused why or how that AME got medical records, unless the OP documented something in MedXpress that got the AME's attention, i.e. medications, medical history, doctors he has seen in the last 3 years (maybe a psychiatrist?), something like that.
I'm a relatively new AME- only been doing it for a couple of years- and I don't routinely seek medical records or even ask for them unless I'm trying to meet the requirements of a CACI or AASI. Maybe I'm not doing something right?
 
NightSkyReader said:
I also am confused why or how that AME got medical records, unless the OP documented something in MedXpress that got the AME's attention, i.e. medications, medical history, doctors he has seen in the last 3 years (maybe a psychiatrist?), something like that.
I'm a relatively new AME- only been doing it for a couple of years- and I don't routinely seek medical records or even ask for them unless I'm trying to meet the requirements of a CACI or AASI. Maybe I'm not doing something right?
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I know this is a few months late, but welcome to the forum! It's always a plus when someone with medical expertise joins in these discussions.
 
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