30% increase in flying cost.

[Radar Contact]

He mentions “political and geopolitical turmoil” in a general sense. You told him with specificity that his current increase has “nothing to do with that particular individual”.

As much as you would like to blame the current administration for your increased flying club prices, you would be incorrect. While certain policies can affect long term prices, the current rise in crude oil or the increased insurance rates have nothing to do with that particular individual.

How could you possibly know? Did telling Putin, while his forces were amassed, that America would not send troops into battle if he attacked Ukraine have an effect? What if he decided to put troops on the Ukraine side of the border prior to the invasion as a joint exercise and tell Putin if one of them gets a scratch it’s war…could that have had an effect? What if he didn’t cancel the keystone XL pipeline…could that have an effect? What if he orchestrated a blockbuster deal with OPEC in the past year… could that have had an effect? You speak with certainty and I don’t understand how you could possibly know. That’s some crystal ball stuff.

 

[CharlieD3]

He mentions “political and geopolitical turmoil” in a general sense. You told him with specificity that his current increase has “nothing to do with that particular individual”.



How could you possibly know? Did telling Putin, while his forces were amassed, that America would not send troops into battle if he attacked Ukraine have an effect? What if he decided to put troops on the Ukraine side of the border prior to the invasion as a joint exercise and tell Putin if one of them gets a scratch it’s war…could that have had an effect? What if he didn’t cancel the keystone XL pipeline…could that have an effect? What if he orchestrated a blockbuster deal with OPEC in the past year… could that have had an effect? You speak with certainty and I don’t understand how you could possibly know. That’s some crystal ball stuff.

I did fess up to blaming the current occupant, and congress critters... For much of it... Not all.

I don't want this to be or become political. It's about the rising cost of aviation... It will affect all of us. The effects of higher fuel prices will curtail recreational aviation, to say nothing of our day to day living.

 

[Todd82]

Locally there are clubs for Cherokees/172's where the club rental rates are $110-130 and that's after paying quite sizable initiation fees and monthly dues.

Basically, you were flying for under market rates for a LONG time and now it's catching up. C150's are going for $100+ in rental fleets let alone 172's.

For the record at a fbo/flight school outfit I paid $95 for a clapped out Cherokee 140... In 2007.

 

[Tantalum]

I would say $130 is very reasonable..

remember each hour you fly the plane you
-have to contribute to an overhaul reserve
-have to contribute to annual costs
-have to contribute to incidental things that come up
-have to pay for parking / hangar
-have to pay for insurance
-and... have to pay for gas. Figure 10 gal/hr at $5.00 that's $50 from your $130 right there just for gas. That leaves $80 to pay for all that other stuff above. It ain't cheap. I'm surprised anyone is able to turn a profit renting planes at under $130/hr

 

[Morgan3820]

Locally there are clubs for Cherokees/172's where the club rental rates are $110-130 and that's after paying quite sizable initiation fees and monthly dues.

Basically, you were flying for under market rates for a LONG time and now it's catching up. C150's are going for $100+ in rental fleets let alone 172's.

For the record at a fbo/flight school outfit I paid $95 for a clapped out Cherokee 140... In 2007.

When I started in the 70s it was $22 an hour wet. I think the instructor was $15 an hour. Damn I must be old.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

We had an increase for insurance to $100an hr. Shortly after I joined... It was $80...

With prices like that, you can see why I joined the club....

I'm not really complaining about the price I'm paying, as much as about the increase.


The increase being due (IMO) to the political and geopolitical turmoil within the last year or so.

Lol. You expect people to read your post and comment on it without making stuff up or making comments on things you did not say… welcome to the internet.
I agree a thirty percent increase is a lot. With the current economic trends there will be a reduction in the number of pilots. It will just be to expensive for their budget. Hopefully your club will continue to shelter you from some of the big swings and spread the fixed costs out.

 

[SFDukie]

Oil is essentially fiungible. Worldwide supply and demand determines price.

US supply is significantly higher now than on 1/21/21 . Was roughly 11.1 M Bbl/d then, most recent EIA data- 11.6M Bbl/d in Dec 2021

 

[Todd82]

I'm surprised anyone is able to turn a profit renting planes at under $130/

Their profit margin is the maintenance that they skip

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Their profit margin is the maintenance that they skip

It’s a club. There is no profit margin.

 

[Todd82]

When I started in the 70s it was $22 an hour wet. I think the instructor was $15 an hour. Damn I must be old.

That provides an interesting data point. $95/hr for the plane and $35/hr for instructor in 2007...

So the plane went up roughly 4.5x from your data point to 2007, and the instructor not even 2.5x.

Same school as I'm quoting from in 2007 is now $155/hr for the same clapped out Cherokees and $60/hr for instructors. Wage growth outpacing the equipment inflation over the last 15 years.

 

[Todd82]

It’s a club. There is no profit margin.

If it's a real club, there should be financials and open meetings about why the costs increased along with a vote. From the outside, sounds like they ran it too lean to begin with and hiked rates significantly to avoid an "assessment"

 

[Therookguy]

Not sure I could fly our 172 for $100 an hour all in. That is a great price. Even at $130 it is a deal. $144 here for a 172.

This is closer to what I have been paying. $100 an hour is way cheap.

 

[GaryM]

If it's a real club, there should be financials and open meetings about why the costs increased along with a vote.

Open meetings and financials, certainly. My club sets the hourly rate based on a pre-set reserve, plus some multiple of what the average fuel cost was the previous month, so the cost can adjust up or down without a vote, but the mechanics of how the rate is calculated are known.

 

[WDD]

Well, if the price of fuel keeps going up like it is maybe the cost of a 50 year old Cessna will start to drop.

 

[schmookeeg]

> club members crash 1/3 of the fleet
> club prices only go up 30%

Seems like you're still getting a deal.

 

[Htaylor]

> club members crash 1/3 of the fleet
> club prices only go up 30%

Seems like you're still getting a deal.

Probably lucky to get insurance at any price.

 

[aftCG]

 

[Deelee]

View attachment 105322

Just have to pay respect to this meme BTL.....

Also to OP, you have been underpaying for far too long. Welcome to reality. Sucks, but that's what others have been paying for years now.

 

[cowtowner]

I have one product I sell for $215, 36 months ago I sold this same product for $115. My margin is about 40% less than it was at $115.

Steel up
Transportation up
Trump's 301 tariffs add 25%

It isn't just the current occupant. And I don't like the guy currently there, but inflation started way before this guy got into office. It's just that this guy might have helped it a little more.

 

[Country Flier]

Sorry OP, not feeling the sympathy. So it jumped...yeah, 30%. You said its not-for-profit. So the amount is just a CYA on the club's part. Maybe they'll see a surplus, and the rate won't jump for 10 years: rates back to bargain! Prices go up, its called life. Get over it.

 

[Bob Noel]

... but inflation started way before this guy got into office. It's just that this guy might have helped it a little more.

um, that doesn't seem to match reality

 

[schmookeeg]

Politics makes everything urine-soaked.

 

[mr_happyland]

I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn’t assigning percentage of blame to any current or past administration. I was calling out someone who said this administration “have nothing to do” with it. I listed some possibilities that in my opinion, you couldn’t know the outcome of without a crystal ball.

While it’s perfectly fair to have fundamental disagreements and grievances with the current POTUS (of which the OP admittedly has), my point was that the current administration hasn’t had any appreciable effect on his flying club prices being increased by 30%, which is what his suspicions were. Regarding some of the scenarios you mentioned, I wasn’t talking crystal ball stuff, I was referring to what has happened up thru this point in time when the OPs club prices increased.

Respectfully, it’s no secret that NATO (including USA) wasn’t going to send in combat troops to defend a non-NATO country with the potential stakes of escalation being as big as they are. I think it’s reasonable to have expected that result regardless of who was in office. I would have to imagine that if US combat troops were sent to Ukraine, prices would be much higher.

As far as the Keystone argument (and the lingering idea that Biden has cut oil production, thereby increasing prices)…

-Keystone XL was only about 8% completed when it was stopped. Even if it wasn’t stopped, the timeline for it to be completed and transporting oil wouldn’t have been a factor for today’s prices.

-XL would have only added about 500,000 barrels a day to the US current production of 11.185 million barrels/day. Not nearly enough to drastically affect the global price of crude oil.

-2021 USA oil production of 11.185 million barrels/day is a rounding error less that the 11.283 million in the previous year. In fact oil output during Biden’s first year actually exceeds the average daily amount under Trump from 2016 to 2018.

There is a never ending tendency by some who don’t like a particular POTUS , regardless of who is in office, to blame them for many of their particular troubles. I think we’ve probably all done it at one time or another.

 

[SFDukie]

TFW someone posts a political opinion, then states they don’t want the discussion to become political.

 

[Ken Whitson]

When I started in the 70s it was $22 an hour wet. I think the instructor was $15 an hour. Damn I must be old.

For me, the plane was $9/hour and the instructor was $6. I'm older.

 

[MajorTurbulence]

For me, the plane was $9/hour and the instructor was $6. I'm older.

I can’t remember how much I paid for rental and instruction, so I must be even older.

 

[saddletramp]

I must be about the same age as the last two posters. I paid $15.00 per hour for a Cherokee 150. It was seven years old at the time & I thought in was ancient! The instructor was $7.00 per hour, but...I was making a whopping $1.60 pumping gas at a full service station. I thought my instructor had to be filthy rich.

Now here I am instructing making $55.00 per hour.

 

[RudyP]

…could be worse - my rental rate increased by $200 per hour (“by” not “to”) and that’s a dry rate so I get it on the fuel side too.

 

[Silvaire]

On my first flight lesson the plane was $8/hr so yea, get used to prices going up, that's just a part of life.

 

[cmsuav8r]

…could be worse - my rental rate increased by $200 per hour (“by” not “to”) and that’s a dry rate so I get it on the fuel side too.

You can't do that. You are ruining my daydream about flying like you.

 

[pfarber]

As much as you would like to blame the current administration for your increased flying club prices, you would be incorrect. While certain policies can affect long term prices, the current rise in crude oil or the increased insurance rates have nothing to do with that particular individual. What is the reason the flying club is telling you?

It sounds like you’ve been getting a great deal up until just recently. I remember paying $100/hr for a DA20 back when I was training in 2007. Although I haven’t rented since those days, I remember a lot of places would keep their rates the same and then tack on hourly fuel surcharges when the fuel prices spiked.

But gas prices have increased since the day the admins changed. You don't go from $2.50 a gallon to $4.50 a gallon in one year overnight.... And gas prices have not. They started climbing last year when EOs banned drilling and pipelines (unless you are a certain Russian). Seriously, if you think the only reason oil is up is because of current events then you are not well informed.

Also my club is $127 for a nice $172 wet.

 

[IK04]

For me, the plane was $9/hour and the instructor was $6. I'm older.

The entire time I was a student and CFI, the C-150 was $5.00 per hour wet and the 172 was $7.00 wet. CFI was also $5.00 per hour. Private club rates.

My Private Pilot Certificate cost me almost a thousand Dollars and I felt guilty charging people $10 per hour for instruction at my filed rate.

I would not have even attempted to become a pilot if it had cost more...

 

[Deelee]

Politics makes everything urine-soaked.

Completely agree. Turns even the most pleasant of aviation-enthusiast-forums into a cringe-worthy minefield of political posts injected into otherwise informative and enjoyable threads.

 

[Clip4]

Our club is still at 125 and 100/hr tach for our 172SP and 172M, but I'm sure that'll change down the road. We have the funds to eat a short term fuel price spike, but there's only so long we can keep these prices as low as they are.

Really poor club management to not increase wet rates with the fuel price increase.

 

[kayoh190]

Really poor club management to not increase wet rates with the fuel price increase.

They look at the rates at specific intervals and adjust based on operating costs - I'm sure they'll go up once we cross the next one.