$30,000 plane....

Hasn't been mentioned (much) yet, but I still think a C-182 would really meet the mission parameters. Unfortunately, I don't see a good one for $30K.
 
I have a 74 cherokee 140. If you are chosing between a 180 and a 140, I would recommend the 180. The purchase price will be higher, but the operating/maintenance costs will be the same, the 180 will have a much higher useful load and much higher climb rate on the high DA days.
 
SkyHog said:
So - anywho.....AA1 is out of the question I guess (its too bad, I really, really like the Yankees, and they're cheap as hell).
Click to expand...
A stock one, yes. But check with Gene Plazak at DMA SpeedMods about the status of the 200 lb GW increase STC for the O-320-powered ones before you give up entirely.

So I'm looking at a mid-end PA28-140 or a low end PA28-180.
Click to expand...
A year ago, I would have said that a $30K 180 Cherokee would be a pretty sad plane, but today you might find a bargain. However, I think you'll find a lot nicer 140 Cherokee for the same money.
I could do the C210, but I don't know much about them, and I really want to keep maintenance costs down as much as I can (I know, I know, unplanned maintenance is a killer on the wallet, but I am talking planned maintenance).
Click to expand...
The insurance bill would be pretty steep, too, even with 50 hours of retract time in your logbook. It'll burn near twice the gas, too.
 
Sounds to me like a Cherokee 180 is probably the ticket, Nick. :)
 
AdamZ said:
If he was flying with a Hortman CFI he was very likely at 2400. 2400 was like gospel.
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Yep. I've heard that song before. My Tiger only sees 2400 when I am local at 3,000 ft bombing around or going to a close airport. Coming back from LEX recently I saw an average of 160 knots ground speed and hit 170 a few times with a 25 - 30 knot tailwind. I cruised at 9500 ft. at 2600 RPM and 9 GPH. Remember any time you get over 7500 ft. you can essentially go full throttle, 2700 RPM in the Tiger and not get over 75% power.
 
Nick + G/F + Bags + Dog =/= 2 seat airplane.

Nick - you are probably going to want at least 160hp, preferably 180 or more, and for 30k, you've narrowed the field down quite a bit. You know what your likely choices really are:

C172 - with an upgraded engine
PA28 - 160/161/180/181
Musketeer/Sundowner
Tiger

Sure you might be able to find something off the wall here or there that might fit the bill. I'm still waiting for someone to suggest an RV-3, because that is about as practical for your mission as 90% of the other suggestions here which just plain old SUCK because no one is listening to you at all.
 
RV3 would be nice except its a single seat taildragger. have you been reading?
 
EdFred said:
Nick + G/F + Bags + Dog =/= 2 seat airplane.

Nick - you are probably going to want at least 160hp, preferably 180 or more, and for 30k, you've narrowed the field down quite a bit. You know what your likely choices really are:

C172 - with an upgraded engine
PA28 - 160/161/180/181
Musketeer/Sundowner
Tiger

Sure you might be able to find something off the wall here or there that might fit the bill. I'm still waiting for someone to suggest an RV-3, because that is about as practical for your mission as 90% of the other suggestions here which just plain old SUCK because no one is listening to you at all.
Click to expand...

Can I find a Tiger or a Mouse/Sundowner for ~30K?
 
I already suggested an RV-4. Close enough to an RV-3 for him due to his size.

OF COURSE a C172 or PA28 variant is gonna be do what he wants to do with the least problems. One could have answered that in the second post and then simply locked the thread.

But what kind of fun is it to spend someone else's internet dollars on pretend planes and pick a 172?

Much more fun to take that budget and blow it on something that marginally fits his mission, that WE like.

Tim

EdFred said:
Nick + G/F + Bags + Dog =/= 2 seat airplane.

Nick - you are probably going to want at least 160hp, preferably 180 or more, and for 30k, you've narrowed the field down quite a bit. You know what your likely choices really are:

C172 - with an upgraded engine
PA28 - 160/161/180/181
Musketeer/Sundowner
Tiger

Sure you might be able to find something off the wall here or there that might fit the bill. I'm still waiting for someone to suggest an RV-3, because that is about as practical for your mission as 90% of the other suggestions here which just plain old SUCK because no one is listening to you at all.
Click to expand...
 
SkyHog said:
Can I find a Tiger or a Mouse/Sundowner for ~30K?
Click to expand...

It takes some searching, and some luck. I wouldn't rule it out, there are always those deals that pop up. I never thought I'd get a 3000TTAF Comanche with a completely redone panel and a 3 blade prop for what I paid for mine. 2 on the field here are for sale, and they are asking 20k more than what I paid.
 
SkyHog said:
Can I find a Tiger or a Mouse/Sundowner for ~30K?
Click to expand...

Don't know about the Slowdowner, but no way you're going to get a Tiger for $30K even in this depressed market. Maybe a 1/2 share in one. Even Cheetahs are $40K.
 
Anthony said:
Don't know about the Slowdowner, but no way you're going to get a Tiger for $30K even in this depressed market. Maybe a 1/2 share in one. Even Cheetahs are $40K.
Click to expand...

And I was told there was no way I would get my Comanche for what I did. There are always finds out there.
 
EdFred said:
And I was told there was no way I would get my Comanche for what I did. There are always finds out there.
Click to expand...
Patience and timing are always the key to finding treasure. The amount of bad, broken down planes that are out there for sale can sometimes seem like there are no treasures to be found.
 
EdFred said:
And I was told there was no way I would get my Comanche for what I did. There are always finds out there.
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True dat, especially now. Unlikely, but nothing is impossible in this mess of an economy. Glad you got a deal Ed.
 
Ron Levy said:
A stock one, yes. But check with Gene Plazak at DMA SpeedMods about the status of the 200 lb GW increase STC for the O-320-powered ones before you give up entirely.

Nick, I sent you a PM on this topic in case you're like me and never notice you have PM's until 3 weeks later. Contact me offline if you're interested.
Click to expand...
 
EdFred said:
Nick + G/F + Bags + Dog =/= 2 seat airplane.

Nick - you are probably going to want at least 160hp, preferably 180 or more, and for 30k, you've narrowed the field down quite a bit. You know what your likely choices really are:

C172 - with an upgraded engine
PA28 - 160/161/180/181
Musketeer/Sundowner
Tiger

Sure you might be able to find something off the wall here or there that might fit the bill. I'm still waiting for someone to suggest an RV-3, because that is about as practical for your mission as 90% of the other suggestions here which just plain old SUCK because no one is listening to you at all.
Click to expand...

In your method of thinking you forgot the C-175. 175 horse power in a 172 airframe, with early 180 wings. 40 degree manual flaps, 2650 gross weight, and the smoothest engine ever placed in a cessna.

Those who own them love them despite all the rumors of the engine maintenance.
 
schmookeeg said:
A super mouse (even though this one sounds like it needs work) would do the trick in ABQ. It's a musketeer with the 200hp injected engine.

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=123967
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What the hell, assuming this is sound airframe and engine (determine that first), make an offer on this one somewhere in the $25k range, leaves room for upgrading radios a bit and buying an interior kit from Airtex. Mouse is not super-speedy, but ROOM-Y! Nice planes.

Tom-D said:
In your method of thinking you forgot the C-175. 175 horse power in a 172 airframe, with early 180 wings. 40 degree manual flaps, 2650 gross weight, and the smoothest engine ever placed in a cessna.

Those who own them love them despite all the rumors of the engine maintenance.
Click to expand...


175 always seems to be priced under its comparable value- not a bad idea here, and I have the feeling TD knows of what he speaks!
 
I'm assuming that folks have already suggested the 150/160 hp Tripacer to him? Lots of room to carry Piper and bags, usually found in the mid-$20's, out-performs a 172...
 
etsisk said:
I'm assuming that folks have already suggested the 150/160 hp Tripacer to him? Lots of room to carry Piper and bags, usually found in the mid-$20's, out-performs a 172...
Click to expand...

That would make too much sense :yikes:.

Deb
 
He already said it didn't fit him well.
 
EdFred said:
Nick + G/F + Bags + Dog =/= 2 seat airplane.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
Nick - you are probably going to want at least 160hp, preferably 180 or more, and for 30k, you've narrowed the field down quite a bit. You know what your likely choices really are:

C172 - with an upgraded engine
PA28 - 160/161/180/181
Musketeer/Sundowner
Tiger
Click to expand...
Your choices for those in the <$30K price range will be awfully limited -- probably only a <180 Cherokee or a BE19 Sport/Mouse.
 
SkyHog said:
Can I find a Tiger or a Mouse/Sundowner for ~30K?
Click to expand...
Maybe a basket-case Tiger, nothing more, but you might find a Traveler for that money. That will give you 115 knots, plus room and payload for the 2 hour/300nm trip. On the Beech side, I doubt you'll find a decent BE23 for that money, probably only a BE19 ("Sport").
 
Don't forget, you can get into a $30k 180hp Cherokee, but how much will it cost to fix it up???

That's the problem with many of these planes. Nick, I don't know if you've budgeted for annual expenses with your $30k acquisition target price, but some of the proposals, like a $30k 175, will probably take another $10k to fix up.

Pay now, or pay later, but they'll all cost the same in the end. You can buy a decent older $50k 172, or a $30k 172 and spend $20k making it decent, either way you'll be out $50k.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Don't forget, you can get into a $30k 180hp Cherokee, but how much will it cost to fix it up???

That's the problem with many of these planes. Nick, I don't know if you've budgeted for annual expenses with your $30k acquisition target price, but some of the proposals, like a $30k 175, will probably take another $10k to fix up.

Pay now, or pay later, but they'll all cost the same in the end. You can buy a decent older $50k 172, or a $30k 172 and spend $20k making it decent, either way you'll be out $50k.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah. True aircraft owner experience you show Mr. Andrew. Purchase price is only the ENTRY FEE. The club dues are what KILL you. Even if you pay for a plane in "good" condition the maintanence is a HUGE wild card. Trust me, I know, even with the simple, fixed gear Tiger at 30 years I basically had to restore it. :frown2:
 
SkyHog said:
http://www.theplaneexchange.com/listman/listings/l0056.html

Beech 19. Anyone know anything about this plane? Ron's mentioned it a few times, and it looks decent. Is it tiny?
Click to expand...

au contraire. Baby Beeches are big. Wider than a Bonanza. Wide beam makes it slower, but a nice ride. Someone may come along and say "Beech part prices AGGH!" but you can avoid most of that through salvage parts and the like.

OH yeah, and 2 doors, for civilized people. No scooching over the copilot seat, although since it's your girlfriend, mebbe you won't mind doing that !!!
 
Beech 19 Sport will do that -- but it will do that slowly. You won't see 115 knots other than in a power dive. BTW, it's pretty much the same 'frame as the Sundowner, if you're wondering about cabin size -- just 150 HP vs 180.
 
Ron Levy said:
Beech 19 Sport will do that -- but it will do that slowly. You won't see 115 knots other than in a power dive. BTW, it's pretty much the same 'frame as the Sundowner, if you're wondering about cabin size -- just 150 HP vs 180.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a sport might (might) cruise at 100 knots. I did 115kts at 2500rpm in the Sundowner, around 63% power IIRC.

Still: big, cheap, fast -- pick two!
 
SkyHog said:
That is what I'm looking for - 2 adults, baggage, maybe a dog :)
Click to expand...

Spec's I find on the internet:


Beech B19 Sport 150 (1977 & later)
Horsepower: 150.0 Max Speed: 127mph 75% Cruise Speed: 123mph Stall Speed (full flaps): 58mph Gross Weight: 2,150lbs. Empty Weight: 1,414lbs. Difference: 736lbs.
Fuel Capacity: 57gal.=342lbs. Useful Payload: 394lbs. Range: 643 nm
Takeoff Ground Roll: 1,030 ft. Over 50 ft. Obstacle: 1,635 ft. Max Climb Rate: 680 fpm
Service Ceiling: 11,650 ft.
Landing Ground Roll: 824 ft. Over 50 ft. Obstacle: 1,693 ft.


I don't recall how fast it flew, but I do remember that it would carry a lot of gas...
 
57 gallons is like 7 hours fuel with that engine. How's your bladder, Nick? And how's your dog's bladder?
 
Anthony said:
Oh yeah. True aircraft owner experience you show Mr. Andrew. Purchase price is only the ENTRY FEE. The club dues are what KILL you. Even if you pay for a plane in "good" condition the maintanence is a HUGE wild card.
Click to expand...

Yup.

Nick, whatever happened to getting back into N8816J? If you could do that, or something like it (club/partnership deal) you could get more involved in the finances and/or maintenance aspects to learn how much an airplane is really gonna cost you. Even on a "simple" (fixed-gear, fixed-pitch, metal, common-with-cheap-parts, etc.) airplane, maintenance may cost you over $50/hr even if you fly it regularly.

Being the treasurer of a flying club has given be a great appreciation for the costs of maintaining these older birds. Broken ELT antenna, $269.44. Two tires, $354.94. New alternator, $620.84. Random oil leak, $292.82. Oil change, $215.57. Another random oil consumption/leak/high pressure, $978.91. Stuck door handle, $105.44. Pitot/static and transponder check: $263.75. Random issues discovered during pitot/static and transponder check: $1,296.55. :eek: New tach cable: $323.55. Corrosion repair and fuel bladders: $11,232.29. Dead vacuum pump, $568.16.

Add it up, and pretty soon you're talking real money! :hairraise:

Not trying to discourage you at all, but I recommend you budget $50/hr for maintenance, and force yourself to put it in a separate savings account as soon as you fly the time. Otherwise, a pricey but small problem could ground you - And the fixed costs don't go away when that happens, so you end up paying for a plane you can't fly. :(
 
"Dammit, Kent/Pete has 71G for the that weekend."

That right there is the reason Nick should stay out of partnership. Plus, I think he said he was going to be leaving ABQ again?

$110/hr based on 100hrs per year is what the 180 cost me. That included everything though. Charts, insurance, hangar, etc...
 
EdFred said:
$110/hr based on 100hrs per year is what the 180 cost me. That included everything though. Charts, insurance, hangar, etc...
Click to expand...
Does that include acquisition cost?
 
Nick Can you get into one of these ?

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