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N444MD

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Man's mind and spirit grow with the space in which they are allowed to operate. — Krafft A. Ehricke
206 is a great airplane if it fits your needs. Van Bortel is going to be the most expensive place to buy one. Look in Trade-A-Plane.
 
Useful load of 1,255 lbs for that one the OP linked.. that seems light. I thought 206 was more like a 1,500 lb-er?

$650K is a lot of money.. surely you can find one that has more useful load for a smaller price

*also, mini rant, but new plane prices continue to astonish me.. $650K for a plane that's been around since 1962, with the only meaningful change being *less* useful load and nicer avionics (thanks Garmin)??

In other news, Bearhawk announced a 6 person version with around a 1,500 lb useful.
 
Tantalum said:
Useful load of 1,255 lbs for that one the OP linked.. that seems light. I thought 206 was more like a 1,500 lb-er?

$650K is a lot of money.. surely you can find one that has more useful load for a smaller price

*also, mini rant, but new plane prices continue to astonish me.. $650K for a plane that's been around since 1962, with the only meaningful change being *less* useful load and nicer avionics (thanks Garmin)??

In other news, Bearhawk announced a 6 person version with around a 1,500 lb useful.
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Just found the article on the bearhawk. Had no idea that existed. I wish he would come out with a cruiser model that sacrificed a little takeoff distance for extra cruise speed.

206 is a cool plane. Older ones suck to fly empty as the trim doesn’t have enough up authority. It was addressed in the later versions. I would skip the A/C in favor of more useful load.
 
How many of your trips are going to be the 700nm variety ?

The caveat with the newer models: They are @$$)$%%%$$$$ expensive to buy ;-)
 
Probably a 500nm trip once a month or so. Otherwise shorter. Agree the with the cost sentiment, haven't been able to find the price of new 206. I'm fairly consigned to a turbo to get the speed at altitude. Flew a new SR22T that was way too cramped for 800K. Manifold pressure was high and seemed to drive the power plant hard. RV10 and the Bearhawk look great but I've no time to build.
 
N444MD said:
Probably a 500nm trip once a month or so. Otherwise shorter. Agree the with the cost sentiment, haven't been able to find the price of new 206. I'm fairly consigned to a turbo to get the speed at altitude. Flew a new SR22T that was way too cramped for 800K. Manifold pressure was high and seemed to drive the power plant hard. RV10 and the Bearhawk look great but I've no time to build.
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What speed? The 206 is a giant brick with wings. Put a turbo on it and it's still a giant brick with wings. The POH I have for the T206H says 74% power, 163 KTAS and 19GPH at 20,000 is the best you're going to do, and while Cessna doesn't go to 85% like Cirrus does you're still pushing it pretty hard at that point. The Cirrus looks to be 190-ish at 75% and 20,000, 200+ if you want to push it to 85% and if you want to go higher can even just break 200 at 25,000 and 75%.
 
N444MD said:
Flew a new SR22T that was way too cramped
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Cramped?! It's wider (considerably) than any Cessna single engine. The seat is at an angle though, which some people don't like as it reduces your headroom as you pull closer to the panel

N444MD said:
Manifold pressure was high and seemed to drive the power plant hard
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You can fly whatever MP you want. Nothing mandates you honk at 30 inches and 85% power.. like the other poster said, many of these bigger engines are being asked to do a lot, esp the turbos

That 160 true airspeed and 6 seats you can't use may get tiring after spending $650K

Why not an older plane.. lots of 210, etc haulers out there
 
$650k puts you damn near in used Meridian/TBM territory. If you’re gonna spend that kind of money, why not go with the turbine reliability and speed?

edit: If I were you I would be looking at something like this https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/192449741/2001-piper-jetprop
not to mention FIKI, radar, and pressurization giving you the ability to fly on plenty of days you couldn’t otherwise.
 
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The older 206 I’ve flown would do about 135kts on 12-13 gph. It had the 260hp Continental in it. Handled turbulence really well and can carry what you put in it. We usually carried a few bags of quickcrete around in the baggage area to make it fly better.
 
Grum.Man said:
The older 206 I’ve flown would do about 135kts on 12-13 gph. It had the 260hp Continental in it.
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That would be the Cessna 205 (aka "210-5"), built 1963-64 with the 260 hp IO-470. The 206 was introduced for the 1964 model year with a 285 hp IO-520, and was built side-by-side with the 205 that year, after which the 205 was discontinued.

Other differences between the 205 and 206 included the larger flaps and double cargo doors on the 206, with no front passenger door.
 
Pilawt said:
That would be the Cessna 205 (aka "210-5"), built 1963-64 with the 260 hp IO-470. The 206 was introduced for the 1964 model year with a 285 hp IO-520, and was built side-by-side with the 205 that year, after which the 205 was discontinued.

Other differences between the 205 and 206 included the larger flaps and double cargo doors on the 206, with no front passenger door.
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it was a 206 so must have the IO520
 
chartbundle said:
What speed? The 206 is a giant brick with wings. Put a turbo on it and it's still a giant brick with wings. The POH I have for the T206H says 74% power, 163 KTAS and 19GPH at 20,000 is the best you're going to do, and while Cessna doesn't go to 85% like Cirrus does you're still pushing it pretty hard at that point. The Cirrus looks to be 190-ish at 75% and 20,000, 200+ if you want to push it to 85% and if you want to go higher can even just break 200 at 25,000 and 75%.
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All true. On a given day flightaware reports most of the turbo cirri at 10/12K feet, not much different than the normally aspirated. And there is lot more space behind those big doors on the brick than in a tennis ball can if you'll pardon the comparison. A turbo cirrus pressed at 85% is likely going to be expense at the annual based on some engine logs I've reviewed. I'd rather pay more for plane and less for annual in general. The 206 seems to be a lot easier on the engine albeit a little slower.
 
DavidWhite said:
$650k puts you damn near in used Meridian/TBM territory. If you’re gonna spend that kind of money, why not go with the turbine reliability and speed?

edit: If I were you I would be looking at something like this https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/192449741/2001-piper-jetprop
not to mention FIKI, radar, and pressurization giving you the ability to fly on plenty of days you couldn’t otherwise.
Click to expand...

We fly a TBM now and then. At 330/26K it's hard to beat. At this point we don't fly enough to justify, and probably don't want to get into the leasing business. The maintenance on the TProps is steep. But we're in learning mode. I've not flown a Jetprop or Pilatus yet but would like to buy a leg in a Pilatus to check it out.
 
Tantalum said:
Cramped?! It's wider (considerably) than any Cessna single engine. The seat is at an angle though, which some people don't like as it reduces your headroom as you pull closer to the panel
You can fly whatever MP you want. Nothing mandates you honk at 30 inches and 85% power.. like the other poster said, many of these bigger engines are being asked to do a lot, esp the turbos
That 160 true airspeed and 6 seats you can't use may get tiring after spending $650K
Why not an older plane.. lots of 210, etc haulers out there
Click to expand...

The FADEC in the 22T pretty much calls the ball. On approach you're pulling power to 40% or so before RPM begins to wind down, and the manifold pressure rides it all the way down. It took a little while to get comfortable with the engine sound as it was noticeably "driven" if you will. I'm trying to buy a newer plane for the avionics (and the wife) and to avoid putting an older machine in the garage for 3 months for upgrade kinda thing.
 
N444MD said:
The FADEC in the 22T pretty much calls the ball. On approach you're pulling power to 40% or so before RPM begins to wind down, and the manifold pressure rides it all the way down. It took a little while to get comfortable with the engine sound as it was noticeably "driven" if you will. I'm trying to buy a newer plane for the avionics (and the wife) and to avoid putting an older machine in the garage for 3 months for upgrade kinda thing.
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Unfortunately (fortunately) there's no fancy fadec, just a cleverly cammed mechanical mechanism under the throttle box.. technically the engine still has a physical blue knob you just can't see it lol

I think a lot of Cirrus people abuse their airplanes and engines.. the 22T I did my transition on often had people cruising with cylinder head temps in the low 400s..

Also, the whole "I didn't pay this money to go slow.. if the book says I can go at 85% then dammit I will!" thing

My instructor always taught by manifold pressure though and we ignored the percent power numbers and cruised at 75% power, which still gave a very respectable true airspeed

I did however make judicious use of the turbo cruising summer between 13 and 16K..

But outside of some prices similarity they are completely apples and oranges When comparing a Cirrus to Cessna.. etc.

anyway, if my objective was good load hauling capability for longer trips I'd be looking at stuff built before 1990.. or if you have a healthier budget you can get a lot of multi engines.. prices have really fallen to the floor..
 
N444MD said:
Probably a 500nm trip once a month or so. Otherwise shorter. Agree the with the cost sentiment, haven't been able to find the price of new 206. I'm fairly consigned to a turbo to get the speed at altitude. Flew a new SR22T that was way too cramped for 800K. Manifold pressure was high and seemed to drive the power plant hard. RV10 and the Bearhawk look great but I've no time to build.
Click to expand...

A T206 if you flog it will do 155kts. So thats about 3.5hrs for that trip.

I would love a T206 as family hauler as it makes a great 4-seater, but the capital required is just more than I am willing to tie up (or pay interest on).
 
write-stuff said:
206 is a great airplane if it fits your needs. Van Bortel is going to be the most expensive place to buy one. Look in Trade-A-Plane.
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TAP is a great resource THX. Tons of 20x's with prices all over the place. VB says they guarantee their planes are tight and ready to go. No pre buy needed. Are they providing a service commensurate with their pricing ?
 
N444MD said:
We fly a TBM now and then. At 330/26K it's hard to beat. At this point we don't fly enough to justify, and probably don't want to get into the leasing business. The maintenance on the TProps is steep. But we're in learning mode. I've not flown a Jetprop or Pilatus yet but would like to buy a leg in a Pilatus to check it out.
Click to expand...

A pilatus is a whole ‘nother class of airplane than a meridian or jetprop. Almost twice as heavy, twice the payload, almost twice the range, and the buy-in starts at about $1mm for a more tired example. Pilatus also has lots of proprietary stuff with regards to mx which makes it so only a pilatus service center can work on them, and you can only buy parts from pilatus.

I know one year the company I used to fly for spent near $300k just on parts chasing various transient issues.

With all that being said, if you have the $$$ it’s pretty hard to top a PC12. They are one of the safest airplanes ever built.
 
N444MD said:
TAP is a great resource THX. Tons of 20x's with prices all over the place. VB says they guarantee their planes are tight and ready to go. No pre buy needed. Are they providing a service commensurate with their pricing ?
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I can't say about how worthy their pricing is. I looked at some of their airplanes in the past and they do seem to market good, clean machines. But man, their prices are really high!

They are a broker and mark prices up quite a bit.
 
I just purchased a new T206 to be delivered later this year. The price will end up between $750-780 depending on options, unless you want factory air which adds another $50k. The Textron sales team was pretty good and might be worth reaching out to. The production numbers seem a little limited, and government and law enforcement contracts seem to account for a significant percentage of T206 sales. Expect at least 4-6 months lead time for a new purchase. I’m happy to pass on more of my buying experience.
 
She wasn't the sales rep for my region. The guys I worked with were great, but may have slightly less ramp appeal to some customers.
 
...and congratulations on the new plane!
 
For that kind of budget I think it would be worth looking at a second fan if it’s speed and useful you are looking for
 
24 spark plugs, 4 mags, 16 quarts of oil, 2 props, retractable gear, Janitrol heater, insurance etc..

At least with the rough numbers I came up with, the cost of a new or relatively new T206 becomes a little more palatable when you factor in a few years of maintenance and insurance costs.

A used light twin or ~10 year old T206 certainly makes better sense from an initial purchase price. Low time G58s were a little too steep. The DA62 is intriguing, but also out of my price range.

You only live once.
 
Cervieres said:
I just purchased a new T206 to be delivered later this year. The price will end up between $750-780 depending on options, unless you want factory air which adds another $50k. The Textron sales team was pretty good and might be worth reaching out to. The production numbers seem a little limited, and government and law enforcement contracts seem to account for a significant percentage of T206 sales. Expect at least 4-6 months lead time for a new purchase. I’m happy to pass on more of my buying experience.
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Color me envious.!!!

Also.....:needpics:
 
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