1st rental maintenance issue, what say you?

eman1200

eman1200

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Bro do you even lift
rented a plane for a day.

made it to where I was going, noticed a busted cowl clasp. no maintenance on the field.

called rental place, let them know.

other things happened, but for the sake of this discussion, let's just say I determined plane was not airworthy. someone flew out and picked me up.

rental place is going to pick up the plane tomorrow. question is, what happens with the rental cost? do I pay for the flight back as well? what's fair? what does your rental agreement say about maintenance issues like this?
 
Just pay for the time you put on the plane you rented.
 
Check your rental agreement, hopefully it's covered.

I run a small flight school (three aircraft). My rental agreement states that the pilot is responsible for returning the aircraft to home base and they are responsible for the costs of doing so. If they abandon the airplane somewhere then they are charged for the rental cost of getting it back to home base, plus the costs for me to get a pilot to go get it and fly it back.

The reality is that I've never charged anyone for getting a 'broken' airplane back to the home base. In fact, we've only actually had an airplane break down away from home once, and I flew out to the airport and flew the rental pilot home all on our dollar.

I think the only time I would try to make someone "pay" for the recovery flight would be, if, let's say they rent one of our airplanes and they fly it out to California. It breaks down there, perhaps it needs a started replaced and it'll take the mechanic a day to replace it. If the pilot weren't willing to wait one day for it to be fixed and just airlined home at that point I'd likely be trying to charge them. Why? They have some degree of responsibility for flying the thing across the country. If they aren't willing to wait a single day for it to be fixed I consider that unreasonable.

However, if a rental pilot flew one of our airplanes to California and let's say the engine blows up and suddenly it needs a new engine and that's going to take a month. In that case, I definitely would not charge the pilot for the recovery costs, but I also wouldn't pay their way home either.
 
jesse said:
Check your rental agreement, hopefully it's covered.

I run a small flight school (three aircraft). My rental agreement states that the pilot is responsible for returning the aircraft to home base and they are responsible for the costs of doing so. If they abandon the airplane somewhere then they are charged for the rental cost of getting it back to home base, plus the costs for me to get a pilot to go get it and fly it back.

The reality is that I've never charged anyone for getting a 'broken' airplane back to the home base. I....
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holy cr@p u scared me there for a second. yeah I was actually more than willing to spend a night in a hotel but there wouldn't have been a maintenance guy there for another full day, plus any parts that may have needed to be ordered. my initial conversation was that the place wants me to pay for the flight back. I'm hoping they do right and they end up not charging me for that.
 
eman1200 said:
holy cr@p u scared me there for a second. yeah I was actually more than willing to spend a night in a hotel but there wouldn't have been a maintenance guy there for another full day, plus any parts that may have needed to be ordered. my initial conversation was that the place wants me to pay for the flight back. I'm hoping they do right and they end up not charging me for that.
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Hard to say. It's one of those issues that kind of sucks for all parties no matter how you look at it. I can easily see a rental operator saying that the agreement said that, and you WERE planning on paying to fly the thing home regardless. So paying to fly it home after it gets fixed SHOULDN'T be a huge surprise, nor a huge unexpected expense.
 
jesse said:
Hard to say. It's one of those issues that kind of sucks for all parties no matter how you look at it. I can easily see a rental operator saying that the agreement said that, and you WERE planning on paying to fly the thing home regardless. So paying to fly it home after it gets fixed SHOULDN'T be a huge surprise, nor a huge unexpected expense.
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Yeah, but can he log the time? :D
 
My experience with a remote breakdown was that an alternator split on the ground not THAT far away, but far enough. I was with my son.

I called the club and volunteered to stay with the airplane within reason (meaning, same day) and try to contact a repair guy. They gave me a $400 approval for repairs.

There were two repair outfits on the field, but it was Sunday and both were closed. I reached one at the golf course by phone, but he refused the job. At that point, I reported back to the club, and they sent a multi lesson our way (not far out of the way), and we both rode home in the back of a Baron and watched something like 20 engine-outs on the 30 minute flight home. The ME student got signed off for his checkride right after.

They charged is the 1.3 hours Hobbs we had spent getting out there, one way. We were not charged for the return trip or for airplane recovery.

It took several hours, but it seemed reasonable. Fortunately, I could keep my kid occupied as that airport happens to have a substantial playground right next to the tower! Plus a nice set of bleachers with a view of all four runways and Tower audio.

It took something like two weeks to get resolved, as it wasn't something simple like a bad belt. The alternator was in two pieces.
 
If it's a maintenance problem,you usually pay for the time you put on the airplane,however if you get caught IFR and can't get back you usually pay for the pilots who have to come get you and the airplane
 
I had one where it was a blown tire about 75kts away on a Sunday.

The operator and I settled it with me paying for the chase pilots time and nothing else. Seemed equitable.
 
I had my Arrow fiasco last year, when I had to make 2 emergency landings within a few hours. First a magneto fell off(oil all over windscreen etc), then the prop governor broke (I got about 18" and 2700rpm, barely could keep altitude at 80ish mphIAS).
I had to sort out everything myself for the magneto issue (took maybe 4-5 hours), and had to rent a car and drive back and forth around 100mi one way to do their troubleshooting for the prop, then stay 2 nights while they fixed it. I flew the plane back but only because he asked if I could do it, we had to skip 2 places we had planned on going to etc because of this issue.
In the end he tried to charge me for every single hour on the Hobbs (there was probably 2-3 hours extra for all the troubleshooting and diversions etc). I told him he can stick his Hobbs numbers somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.

I think total on Hobbs was 18 hours for that trip. I said I'll be happy to pay 10 which was pretty much the utility I got out of it during that trip (and given that it was 10 hours Hobbs, I don't think he would've been out of pocket anyway). He started yelling and threatening me, so I just said "sue me" and hung up.
 
If a rental plane had a problem while I was flying it, I wouldn't expect it to cost me anything. Not time or money. If I spent the night or nights somewhere, or had to go out of my way to get it fixed, I'd expect to be compensated for that, not the other way around.
 
I'd pay for the time I put on the airplane and nothing more in the case of a failure that made it un-airworthy(read-not my fault).
 
If I fly a rental that breaks down through no fault of my own, I'm not paying a dime to get it back home. I'll try hard to accommodate and wait for repairs so I can fly it back, but it's not my fault their plane broke, I won't subsidize their maintenance.
 
eman1200 said:
rented a plane for a day.

made it to where I was going, noticed a busted cowl clasp. no maintenance on the field.

called rental place, let them know.

other things happened, but for the sake of this discussion, let's just say I determined plane was not airworthy. someone flew out and picked me up.

rental place is going to pick up the plane tomorrow. question is, what happens with the rental cost? do I pay for the flight back as well? what's fair? what does your rental agreement say about maintenance issues like this?
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I flew a rental to KBMI for a nearby meeting last year and upon returning to the FBO after the meeting I found a flat nose wheel. the line guys were not able to re-inflate it nor did they have the correct part. I called the owner who told me to rent a car at his expense in order to get home and he also refunded, without my asking, the cost of the rental for the trip to KBMI. I flew down with a buddy a few days later and brought the plane home (at my cost). I thought that was more than fair.
 
rk911 said:
I flew a rental to KBMI for a nearby meeting last year and upon returning to the FBO after the meeting I found a flat nose wheel. the line guys were not able to re-inflate it nor did they have the correct part. I called the owner who told me to rent a car at his expense in order to get home and he also refunded, without my asking, the cost of the rental for the trip to KBMI. I flew down with a buddy a few days later and brought the plane home (at my cost). I thought that was more than fair.
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That sounds like a square deal.
 
rk911 said:
I flew a rental to KBMI for a nearby meeting last year and upon returning to the FBO after the meeting I found a flat nose wheel. the line guys were not able to re-inflate it nor did they have the correct part. I called the owner who told me to rent a car at his expense in order to get home and he also refunded, without my asking, the cost of the rental for the trip to KBMI. I flew down with a buddy a few days later and brought the plane home (at my cost). I thought that was more than fair.
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yep, sounds fair. I am more than happy to pay for 100% of my flight time. they did offer to pay for a hotel but I don't see how it's fair for me to pay for a return flight that I'm not taking, for a maintenance issue that I had nothing to do with. we shall see, I have no reason to believe they won't do the right thing, I have no prior complaints with them at all.
 
My flight school didn't charge you for the return if the plane broke down at a remote location. Very often I, or a friend, would get a call late at night from the stranded party asking for us to get them. Until recently we'd just write off the time to the school and have basically free flight time. However, my friend now runs the place and is going back to the old ways. If your stuck at night for MX, suck it up and pay for a hotel. Which I agree with because you don't need kids being called at 12am to pick up their friend on the school's dime. If it's daytime then you'll get a ride back to base.

I once negotiated to take a Arrow to Oshkosh during my Junior year. Part of the special agreement was that, if the plane broke down in-route, I'd be stuck until it was fixed. This was because the school had a 300nm limit, without further permission, on "training" flights and the MX Director said it wasn't his problem to get my butt 600nm away.
 
eman1200 said:
rented a plane for a day.

made it to where I was going, noticed a busted cowl clasp. no maintenance on the field.

called rental place, let them know.

other things happened, but for the sake of this discussion, let's just say I determined plane was not airworthy. someone flew out and picked me up.

rental place is going to pick up the plane tomorrow. question is, what happens with the rental cost? do I pay for the flight back as well? what's fair? what does your rental agreement say about maintenance issues like this?
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If you're talking about FC... what's fair may not be relevant...
 
Sounds to me like you need to tighten the ol' belt and just go buy your own airplane!
 
Out of curiousity, what is usually done with car rentals? I've only once ever had a problem with a car, and that was a flat tire that was my fault, so I had to pay to get a new tire on at a local tire place. But what if you're driving around and a belt or something breaks and strands you somewhere? What is typically done as far as all the same issues we've discussed - returning you home, hotel stay, repairs to the car, etc.?
 
eman1200 said:
I am not. but I see you're a big FC fan ;)

did u get my response thru PnP?
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Yep! and no I'm not... someday I'll tell you a story... in any event...don't fly Skyhawk tn ending in 741 ( I think it was(was based in Rock Hill))... someone is gonna get hurt in that one...
 
RussR said:
Out of curiousity, what is usually done with car rentals? I've only once ever had a problem with a car, and that was a flat tire that was my fault, so I had to pay to get a new tire on at a local tire place. But what if you're driving around and a belt or something breaks and strands you somewhere? What is typically done as far as all the same issues we've discussed - returning you home, hotel stay, repairs to the car, etc.?
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In the case of a rental, they usually just have you come back in to the nearest rental site (via wrecker or cab) to pick up another rental and go about your way. Not really an easy option for aircraft rentals.
 
RussR said:
Out of curiousity, what is usually done with car rentals? I've only once ever had a problem with a car, and that was a flat tire that was my fault, so I had to pay to get a new tire on at a local tire place. But what if you're driving around and a belt or something breaks and strands you somewhere? What is typically done as far as all the same issues we've discussed - returning you home, hotel stay, repairs to the car, etc.?
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there's quite a few differences, but the main one's are the sheer #'s of car rental places and competition. enterprise or the like will go out of their way to get you another car because if they don't they know you'll rent with someone else next time.
 
Lindberg said:
If a rental plane had a problem while I was flying it, I wouldn't expect it to cost me anything. Not time or money. If I spent the night or nights somewhere, or had to go out of my way to get it fixed, I'd expect to be compensated for that, not the other way around.
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+1
 
jesse said:
I run a small flight school (three aircraft). My rental agreement states that the pilot is responsible for returning the aircraft to home base and they are responsible for the costs of doing so. If they abandon the airplane somewhere then they are charged for the rental cost of getting it back to home base, plus the costs for me to get a pilot to go get it and fly it back.
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As you said, but I didn't quote, remote break downs are not common. I own now, so I don't have to worry about it ... but if I rented and the FBO attempted to charge me for picking up a plane that was down, I wouldn't rent there again. I would be willing to sit for one day only if the plane could be fixed. If the owner is pro-active with belts, batteries, alternators and tires I doubt there would ever be a break down ... but most try to penny pinch every last ounce out of every piece of equipment hoping it fails at engine shutdown on the home ramp:(:confused:
 
eman1200 said:
there's quite a few differences, but the main one's are the sheer #'s of car rental places and competition. enterprise or the like will go out of their way to get you another car because if they don't they know you'll rent with someone else next time.
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Not in my experience...driving from Los Angeles to San Francisco via hwy 5 in the middle of summer (my parents and I drove down to los angeles for my brothers graduation, and were taking his stuff back up to SF on this trip), as we were just reaching the summit at the Grapevine, the cars transmission decides that it does not want to shift out of 6th gear. As I was slowly putzing along the freeway at 50mph on the downhills and 25mph uphill, I was also on the phone with Enterprise to have them sort out the situation. Their ONLY two options were wait on the side of the road in 110 degree heat, or wait for a tow-truck to come pick the car up. Neither was an acceptable solution, so I limped the car to Bakersfield (Bakersfield International Airport, as I like to call it) which was the closest open Enterprise location. When I got there, they had NO full-sized cars available. Only compacts and trucks...

Needless to say I was ****ED...they didn't care. Wouldn't even reimburse me for the tie-downs that I bought to strap the stuff down in the truck bed for the remainder of the trip.
 
vkhosid said:
Not in my experience...driving from Los Angeles to San Francisco via hwy 5 in the middle of summer (my parents and I drove down to los angeles for my brothers graduation, and were taking his stuff back up to SF on this trip), as we were just reaching the summit at the Grapevine, the cars transmission decides that it does not want to shift out of 6th gear. As I was slowly putzing along the freeway at 50mph on the downhills and 25mph uphill, I was also on the phone with Enterprise to have them sort out the situation. Their ONLY two options were wait on the side of the road in 110 degree heat, or wait for a tow-truck to come pick the car up. Neither was an acceptable solution, so I limped the car to Bakersfield (Bakersfield International Airport, as I like to call it) which was the closest open Enterprise location. When I got there, they had NO full-sized cars available. Only compacts and trucks...

Needless to say I was ****ED...they didn't care. Wouldn't even reimburse me for the tie-downs that I bought to strap the stuff down in the truck bed for the remainder of the trip.
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Because, they think you overloaded the vehicle and broke the transmission. But can't prove it, so won't charge you for it.

From what you describe, you put a helluva lot of load on that vehicle.
 
MAKG1 said:
Because, they think you overloaded the vehicle and broke the transmission. But can't prove it, so won't charge you for it.

From what you describe, you put a helluva lot of load on that vehicle.
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4 people, 2 full-sized suitcases with clothes, and a backpack with textbooks...

The car was a Nissan Murano (or however you spell it)
 
vkhosid said:
4 people, 2 full-sized suitcases with clothes, and a backpack with textbooks...

The car was a Nissan Murano (or however you spell it)
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I would have driven it to Hertz or Avis, rented one of their cars, told Enterprise where they could pick up their car, then did a charge back on the credit card.
 
vkhosid said:
4 people, 2 full-sized suitcases with clothes, and a backpack with textbooks...

The car was a Nissan Murano (or however you spell it)
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Don't those have those continuously variable transmissions?
 
Then I must have been mistaken....either way...transmission was busted.

EDIT: Upon further googling, seems they had to variants...a CVT and a 6-speed auto...I must have had the 6-speed auto variant.
 
Ahh Jesse. Don't ever lose your Midwestern sense of fairness.

Your decision process seems eminently reasonable to me. I am sure there are scads of a-holes here on the east coast who would argue with you, and demand that you buy them a new Yukon Denali to compensate you for their troubles.
 
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