$199 ADSB In from ForeFlight

[James331]

Sure. But why on earth would you do anything else? It's there to help YOU.

I've never understood this insistence some pilots have with not doing anything unless it's a FAR. Do you think the FAA recommends you do things for fun? To **** you off?

Or maybe, just maybe, they recommend things to keep you safer and make the system work better?

Common sense.


Some real zingers, like having strobes on whenever the plane is on, even taxiing around at night by other planes.

Dumbing down slow flight and stalls.

Etc.

Some is probably just written that way for the lowest common denominator, others like the transponder thing, I'm just not comfortable with, look at the constant push for user fees, read the Snowden documents, plus how ADSB came about.

Sorry, but I'm sending the least info I legally have to, and I'm not going to taxi with the strobes on, when on cross over to a runway I'll light her up and go to ALT, when I teach stalls and slow flight I'll teach the maneuver for real, then I'll teach it the way the mindless Feds want to see it.

If you just blindly do everything someone else says you should do without asking why and using common sense, that's not good.

 

[murphey]

I think it was changed in the AIM (4-1-20a3) circa 2013, but I found this SAFO from 2015: https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avi...afety/safo/all_safos/media/2015/SAFO15006.pdf

Unfortunately, the statement "enable ADS-B Out transmissions (if equipped) any time their aircraft is positioned on any portion of an airport movement area" is a problem, as many of us have discovered when doing the $500 rebate flights with Garmin 335/345. As per Garmin and the FAA, the transponders must not be on ALT, but on Standby until takeoff. In fact the airplane must come to a complete stop (runup satisfies this part) before taking off, then after landing, another complete stop preferably immediately after exiting the runway, for the system to recognize the OnGround status.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It's all the rules, all the regulation, all the silliness. ADS-B out is a fine example. What an incredibly expensive and complex boondoggle that is. Why is it needed? What is the benefit? Why one set of rules for LSA/experimental and another for the rest of us? We all fly in the same airspace. Why not portable ADS-B out? It's legal in the UK.

Ads-B is just the latest example of an ever increasing Federal Government choking the lifeblood and money out of an entire industry,

But none of that is "leave your transponder on on the ground."

Leaving your transponder on on the ground costs you no money, doesn't increase the size of the FAA, doesn't improve anyone's job security. Not doing so is the DUMBEST. PROTEST. EVER. Nobody at the FAA or in the "gub'mint" is going to notice that you did or didn't do it, so it's 100% ineffective.

The only people who are even inconvenienced by you not following the guideline are YOU AND YOUR FELLOW PILOTS (ie, me). Which puts it into the realm of "dick move". So just do it. Sheesh.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Common sense.

So, what's "common sense" got to do with not turning your transponder on on the ground?

Some real zingers, like having strobes on whenever the plane is on, even taxiing around at night by other planes.

You don't have to have strobes on whenever the plane is on. You have to have "an anticollision lighting system" on, which includes your rotating beacon if so equipped, UNLESS in your judgement it's better not to.

Sorry, but I'm sending the least info I legally have to

The only people who are receiving said information are other pilots who may want to watch out for you, unless you're at an airport with ASDE-X (or the other new system), which most of us aren't most of the time.

If you just blindly do everything someone else says you should do without asking why and using common sense, that's not good.

I'm not doing it blindly. I'm doing it because I have asked why and used common sense. And I don't wear a tin-foil hat.

 

[denverpilot]

Unfortunately, the statement "enable ADS-B Out transmissions (if equipped) any time their aircraft is positioned on any portion of an airport movement area" is a problem, as many of us have discovered when doing the $500 rebate flights with Garmin 335/345. As per Garmin and the FAA, the transponders must not be on ALT, but on Standby until takeoff. In fact the airplane must come to a complete stop (runup satisfies this part) before taking off, then after landing, another complete stop preferably immediately after exiting the runway, for the system to recognize the OnGround status.

That's just broken rebate check code. They could fix it if they wanted to. The rebate flight profile required goes against the AIM. Because some coder somewhere isn't a pilot and wrote it to some test spec that wasn't written correctly.

You don't have to have strobes on whenever the plane is on. You have to have "an anticollision lighting system" on, which includes your rotating beacon if so equipped, UNLESS in your judgement it's better not to.

He's referring to the Chief Counsel letter that says otherwise. Your assertion that you can turn the lights off if you see a safety reason to do so is accurate, but the current "regs" as written by lawyers via letters, and not via proper NPRM process, says ALL anti-collision light systems on, while in motion. Not just "one".

If anything it just highlights how annoying it is to have lawyers "interpret" laws they weren't intended to write, and that nobody fixes when the lawyers botch up the intent of the rules.

In other words, an immense annoying bureaucracy with so many divisions that don't communicate properly that they contradict themselves on these things. Even that would be fine if they'd just show some effort to fix it when they do that.

See: Stupid thread about clearance limit. Another example.

 

[James331]

So, what's "common sense" got to do with not turning your transponder on on the ground?



You don't have to have strobes on whenever the plane is on. You have to have "an anticollision lighting system" on, which includes your rotating beacon if so equipped, UNLESS in your judgement it's better not to.



The only people who are receiving said information are other pilots who may want to watch out for you, unless you're at an airport with ASDE-X (or the other new system), which most of us aren't most of the time.



I'm not doing it blindly. I'm doing it because I have asked why and used common sense. And I don't wear a tin-foil hat.

For one, why would anyone care unless I'm on a active runway? And second why do they need to know my N number?

As for the way the strobe thing is worded, I'd rather people just run straight navs and a taxi light with no beacon, than strobes, saftey wise that's more erring on the side of saftey.

As for the "tin foil" that's really a funny cop out, I mean look at the push and lobby for ADSB and now private ATC, you don't have to have a 180 IQ to see where this is going, now go read the Snowden leaks, now tell me again why sending my N number out and always having my transponder on regardless is for "saftey".

It's all public record and doesn't exactly require any imagination or many brain cells. I'll light her up and hit the transponder when I'm on a runway or somewhere where that would concern other pilots

 

[NoHeat]

Leaving your transponder on on the ground ... Nobody at the FAA or in the "gub'mint" is going to notice that you did or didn't do it

It would indeed be stupid to turn it off in protest while on the ground at a Class A airport like St Louis. They actually do notice. They want you to leave the transponder on to help keep you safe. It helps ground control track you while you taxi and separate you not only from taxiing aircraft but vehicles as well.

 

[murphey]

It's a nice looking gadget - I think it's a re-branded Pingbuddy.

I love the Stratux project. Built two of them. Had a ball. But please, be realistic... this Scout is essentially a Stratux replacement with no muss, no fuss, zero effort, and a VERY clean cockpit footprint.

I, too, would have liked to have seen a GPS included, but for most people it won't matter due to iPads with GPS already on-board.

Stratux has been great for driving the cost of these devices down but I think you're going to see interest in Stratux become very muted. When you can have basically the same thing for the same cost with such a nice design and zero build/installation/troubleshooting issues, people will flock to this and leave Stratux behind.

It was great while it lasted and a true representation of the best parts of GA... ingenuity and community.

Might possibly be the pingeFB with a suction cup and internal antenna for a whole lot less:
https://www.uavionix.com/products/pingefb/

 

[bnt83]

He's referring to the Chief Counsel letter that says otherwise. Your assertion that you can turn the lights off if you see a safety reason to do so is accurate, but the current "regs" as written by lawyers via letters, and not via proper NPRM process, says ALL anti-collision light systems on, while in motion. Not just "one".

If anything it just highlights how annoying it is to have lawyers "interpret" laws they weren't intended to write, and that nobody fixes when the lawyers botch up the intent of the rules.

In other words, an immense annoying bureaucracy with so many divisions that don't communicate properly that they contradict themselves on these things. Even that would be fine if they'd just show some effort to fix it when they do that.

See: Stupid thread about clearance limit. Another example.

I was just at O'hare Friday night, not one airliner had white wing strobes on while on taxi ways or ramp areas. They only had red fuselage mounted lights on.

The Air Force T6 turbo props do not have red anti collision lights and all strobes were off until at the hold short line and cleared for takeoff, all three planes in the group operated that way.

 

[denverpilot]

I was just at O'hare Friday night, not one airliner had white wing strobes on while on taxi ways or ramp areas. They only had red fuselage mounted lights on.

The Air Force T6 turbo props do not have red anti collision lights and all strobes were off until at the hold short line and cleared for takeoff, all three planes in the group operated that way.

So? Just a nitpick... airliners and military aircraft get to operate per their ops rules, and they aren't the same as GA...

I completely get your comment though. Another example of rule-rewrite-via-lawyer-letters that FAA shouldn't be doing. Lawyers shouldn't be writing new rules via interpretations. The "experts" (however venerable that word might be) should be.

The letter re-writes that change the communal understanding of the intent of the rules, encourages the bad pilot behavior of normalizing defiance of the rules, which is absolutely stupid.

 

[Baron62]

Today I flew with the new Scout ADS B reciever. It was connected to 2 ipads and worked great. I think this is a terrific value.

 

[X3 Skier]

Today I flew with the new Scout ADS B reciever. It was connected to 2 ipads and worked great. I think this is a terrific value.

Thanks for the PIREP.

Cheers

 

[flyingcheesehead]

For one, why would anyone care unless I'm on a active runway? And second why do they need to know my N number?

Mainly so that they know where you are and where you're going on the ground. Ever ended up nose to nose with someone who wasn't talking on CTAF on a taxiway at night? I have. N number would be good for communicating on the radio if the other person were actually listening.

Really, ADS-B on the ground is only going to be seen by other pilots. Most airports don't have ADS-B on the field, so nobody's going to see you squawking on the ground except other pilots.

As for the way the strobe thing is worded, I'd rather people just run straight navs and a taxi light with no beacon, than strobes, saftey wise that's more erring on the side of saftey.

Agreed. I don't think a rotating beacon is particularly useful for "anticollision".

 

[James331]

Mainly so that they know where you are and where you're going on the ground. Ever ended up nose to nose with someone who wasn't talking on CTAF on a taxiway at night? I have. N number would be good for communicating on the radio if the other person were actually listening.

Really, ADS-B on the ground is only going to be seen by other pilots. Most airports don't have ADS-B on the field, so nobody's going to see you squawking on the ground except other pilots.



Agreed. I don't think a rotating beacon is particularly useful for "anticollision".

Never had a issue with taxiing like that, I also don't normally make taxi calls at uncontrolled fields.

 

[GRG55]

Besides, the GPS in a pad isn't exactly reliable in flight.

I used to think that too. Then I dumped my old iPad for one with a built in GPS. Works just as reliably as the 530W in my panel.

 

[GRG55]

Agree 1000%. They buffooned it without the GPS. All those wifi only IPADS are useless with this thing. Got to have the cellular to get the GPS chip.

Not true.

My old FF set up used a $100 Garmin GLO bluetoothed to the iPad for a GPS signal.

I can't believe the whining commentary here. The Scout is an FF add on for FF users - by logical extension that means you already have a GPS source for FF and shouldn't need to shell out for another one.

If it doesn't do everything a [fill in your favourite gadget here] does, fine. Stick with your whatever. I bought a Scout at OSH, stuck it on my side window and thought it worked really well on the long trip home. I want it for the ADS-B weather, and haven't seen anything else that is as compact, low power consumption and easy to use at a comparable price.

 

[GRG55]

Your airplanes have a lot of glass, so plenty of clear (non metal) view of sky.

Mine doesn't. Still works just fine, all the time. Even when it's being used by a passenger in the middle row.

 

[Baron62]

My IPAD mini4 GPS seems to work continuously, but I would loose cellular at times when flying. (I know cellular should be off per FCC)

Adding the scout provides reliable weather and enhanced traffic information. The Scout is a terrific value at $200!

My buddy and I flew the NY corridor with Scouts (no ADSB Out). I could see him nicely at all times including warnings when he was near me.

I would have danced with joy to have this 15 years ago when I was a more active flyer!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Never had a issue with taxiing like that, I also don't normally make taxi calls at uncontrolled fields.

I don't either, unless I hear someone on the radio who I think might conflict. But I have been nose-to-nose with someone who couldn't be bothered to be on the radio until he finally saw me 50 feet in front of him. Sure would have been nice for us to be able to see each other before that.

 

[denverpilot]

My IPAD mini4 GPS seems to work continuously, but I would loose cellular at times when flying. (I know cellular should be off per FCC)

Technically FCC never passed any laws about cellular use in flight outside of 800 MHz and backed away slowly and told everyone to ask FAA what they thought about it for all the other myriad of cellular bands.

Of course you can't go into settings on any modern cell phones and tell the cellular chipset to not transmit on 800 MHz, but you can pick a (crappy) carrier who never had AMPS spectrum and use their network which will never attempt to transmit on 800 MHz. Ha.

Most of the carrier's controllers will dump any phone off that's being heard by too many towers anyway, because they know that's an aircraft and they'll tell the transmitter to shut the heck up because its burning too many sites with interference.

Not the same sort of direct interference as in the old AMPS days, but still raises the virtual noise floor for phase modulated types of modern tech trying to hear Joe Sixpack's terrestrial cell phone miles from the tower at pipsqueak power levels like -118 RSSI on LTE.

They don't want your airborne phone competing with his need to post a selfie from the lake. And also wiping out ten other people uploading selfies or checking PoA.

It works sometimes airborne -- especially if you're lower -- because the system can handle the "interference" at low traffic times and it doesn't have to tell your phone to quiet down (lower TX power) to hear everyone. Also helps if your flight path is over an area served by a single main controller for all the cell sites you're hitting and you're slow. Routing your packers to you is difficult if you're hopping sites every 10 seconds.

And... other stuff. The network just doesn't "like" you when you're airborne. Might work, might not. FCC decided they don't care but never rescinded the 800 MHz rule.

 

[exncsurfer]

Agree 1000%. They buffooned it without the GPS. All those wifi only IPADS are useless with this thing. Got to have the cellular to get the GPS chip.

I think they also buffooned it by excluding android, they're selling a cheap product, who is cheaper than android users? I think they'd increase sales a bit.

 

[ZeroPapaGolf]

I think they also buffooned it by excluding android, they're selling a cheap product, who is cheaper than android users? I think they'd increase sales a bit.

Foreflight's app is iOS only. Why would the make it support an OS that their app doesn't run on?

 

[exncsurfer]

Foreflight's app is iOS only. Why would the make it support an OS that their app doesn't run on?

My point was why not make the device more stratus like which works with other efb apps. I didn't think the manufacturer was foreflight, although the device is meant for foreflight, I'm saying it didn't have to be tied to ONLY foreflight.

 

[ZeroPapaGolf]

My point was why not make the device more stratus like which works with other efb apps. I didn't think the manufacturer was foreflight, although the device is meant for foreflight, I'm saying it didn't have to be tied to ONLY foreflight.

It incentivizes customers to stay in the Foreflight ecosystem. Getting someone on an annual subscription and selling a dongle as well is far more desireable than just selling a dongle.

 

[midlifeflyer]

My point was why not make the device more stratus like which works with other efb apps. I didn't think the manufacturer was foreflight, although the device is meant for foreflight, I'm saying it didn't have to be tied to ONLY foreflight.

It incentivizes customers to stay in the Foreflight ecosystem. Getting someone on an annual subscription and selling a dongle as well is far more desireable than just selling a dongle.

Exactly. Hardware compatibility is not and never has been ForeFlight's business model. Dedicated hardware keeps you with FF.

I think this new cheaper ADS-B in is an obvious nod to the competition Stratux has presented. Stratux represents not only hardware competition but software competition. A Stratux user doesn't have to use FF. Even a long term FF user, bothered by recent bloat, can look at viable options. So, FF offers a manufactured product addressing new users who are probably not in the Stratus market anyway as well as current FF users/Stratux fence-sitters who may well say, "I'm going to stay with FF anyway, so if I can get a cheaper ADS-B in solution for hundreds less than Stratus that is a manufactured product rather than opens ource groupware, I'll get it."

If that's the strategy, it's consistent with FF's marketing since the beginning and, whatever else one might say, it has certainly been successful.

 

[EricVKX]

PIREP:

I purchased the Scout on Thursday through Amazon and did a flight yesterday in an Arrow from KVKX to KHMZ. I previously had a Garmin GLO for GPS - less than $100 last time I checked. I've used both StratusX and Stratus 2s before and this setup is by far much simpler and easier to setup. Bluetooth connect to the GLO and WiFi to the Scout. On the return trip flying just south of camp david between Hagerstown and BWI we picked up marine one(heard them on ATC as well,) overflew BWI and saw 73's 2k feet below. The GLO has built in battery and has lasted 8hours for me - never checked when it would actually die out. I had the Scout connected to a 20000mah battery and the battery still had all 4of4 lights for its indicator after 3.5hrs of use.

Granted it's only been one flight now, I would recommend this setup.

 

[TigerGene]

The Scout draws a bit over 200 ma, so with a 20,000ma battery you could leave the thing on for nearly 100 hours! Turn it off after every flight and just charge the battery once a year at the annual!

 

[GeorgeC]

I verified with a friend who works at Foreflight that the 'Scout' firmware can be user upgraded using the FF app.

I just got an email from uavionix saying that they will no longer provide firmware updates for the Scout.