1965 wreckage found (maybe)

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That was a weird one. The sonar image clearly shows a plane with wings still attached. As the story goes the 2 planes collided while they were both sightseeing over the lake. Witness saw the plane hit the water. Only the pilots body was found. The other plane somehow landed. Don't know what that was. They looked for 3 days a few years ago but came up empty. New company testing out equipment stumbled on it. The one article I read had to get the climate change dig in. They were only able to see it in 125' deep water because of drought.
 
I hope someone can get pics of the N-number. Sheriff’s dept may not recover it if it’s too costly, but I’m sure whatever families are left would want to know if that was the plane.
 
Steve Costello said:
It's literally a drought, though. Water levels throughout the region are depleted.
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California has drought every few years. It’s inevitable. Triple the population of the state while adding zero water storage. It’s not a drought in the sense of not enough rainfall from year to year. It’s a man made created drought. 4 years ago we had so much water we almost broke one of our biggest dams. Where’d all that water go? Out into the ocean.


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Peter Anderson said:
California has drought every few years. It’s inevitable. Triple the population of the state while adding zero water storage. It’s not a drought in the sense of not enough rainfall from year to year. It’s a man made created drought. 4 years ago we had so much water we almost broke one of our biggest dams. Where’d all that water go? Out into the ocean.
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It's fair to debate the causes, but it looks a severe water crisis in the West, not the normal drought cycle:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/lake-mead-hits-lowest-water-levels-history-amid/story?id=78197478
 
David Megginson said:
It's fair to debate the causes, but it looks a severe water crisis in the West, not the normal drought cycle:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/lake-mead-hits-lowest-water-levels-history-amid/story?id=78197478
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I’ve been on the same lake in California since 2000. I’ve seen it this low probably 4 times in that 21 years. It happens to be lake Oroville. I’ll go with my personal experience vs ABC news opinions anytime. Yes it’s really bad. And yes. It’s been this bad several times in the last two decades.


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Peter Anderson said:
I’ve been on the same lake in California since 2000. I’ve seen it this low probably 4 times in that 21 years. It happens to be lake Oroville. I’ll go with my personal experience vs ABC news opinions anytime. Yes it’s really bad. And yes. It’s been this bad several times in the last two decades.
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Since they mentioned testing new technology, it's probable that it didn't exist at other times when the water level was this low, regardless of the cause of the water being low.

Also, it's Folsom Lake, not Lake Oroville.
 
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Peter Anderson said:
I’ve been on the same lake in California since 2000. I’ve seen it this low probably 4 times in that 21 years. It happens to be lake Oroville. I’ll go with my personal experience vs ABC news opinions anytime. Yes it’s really bad. And yes. It’s been this bad several times in the last two decades.


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The U.S. Bureau of Reclamation (not ABC news) measured the water level in various reservoirs and verified against past records that it's never been so low.
 
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Everskyward said:
Since they mentioned testing new technology, it's probable that it didn't exist at other times when the water level was this low, regardless of the cause of the water being low.

Also, it's Folsom Lake, not Lake Oroville.
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The reason I mention oroville is it’s one of the biggest as far as water storage in the northern Cali. Folsom is tiny in comparison. Folsom is near by and I was out there just a few weeks ago. Sad to see it at 5mph across the whole lake.


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David Megginson said:
It's fair to debate the causes, but it looks a severe water crisis in the West, not the normal drought cycle:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/lake-mead-hits-lowest-water-levels-history-amid/story?id=78197478
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Thank you

Peter Anderson said:
I’ve been on the same lake in California since 2000. I’ve seen it this low probably 4 times in that 21 years. It happens to be lake Oroville. I’ll go with my personal experience vs ABC news opinions anytime. Yes it’s really bad. And yes. It’s been this bad several times in the last two decades.


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(A) I agree that the state(s) have not done enough to mitigate and solve the issues of water storage. In the UAE they get four inches of yearly rainfall. California by comparison gets 18.. so there's a huge governance issue we have with storing the water

(B) as David points out it is not just California. The Colorado River is low and the Hoover Dam has never been this low. Literally not since it was built, these are actual measurements, not media hype. At the current depletion rate if nothing changes within a few months the water level in Lake Meade will be below the intakes and there will be no more flow through the dam. Not hype, just actual measurements and extrapolating with math

The solutions are myriad.. tons of water goes to farms, tons of it evaporates, tons simply go back to the ocean

The UAE gets practically all their water from thermal desalination. 1600 million gallons of seawater per day are desalinated. In Carlsbad the desalination plant produces a paltry 50 million gallons per day.. for comparison UAE has less than 10 million people while CA has 40 million

The issue is real, and there's lots of work to do
 
Tantalum said:
The issue is real, and there's lots of work to do
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We've been seriously considering a move to the Sacramento/Napa Valley area, but the two things keeping us from really pulling the trigger are the fires and the water crisis (which are obviously linked). Last thing we want to do is contribute to the problem.
 
Matthew said:
I hope someone can get pics of the N-number. Sheriff’s dept may not recover it if it’s too costly, but I’m sure whatever families are left would want to know if that was the plane.
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If it is at 125', it wouldn't be hard to get a SCUBA diver down there if an ROV can't confirm the identity of the plane. That's within recreational limits for SCUBA. I'd first heard 160' for the depth, and while mixed gas diving starts to offer advantages at that depth, it's still quite reachable by an experienced diver breathing air (and using high O2 mix on ascent to accelerate decompression).

If they did want to raise the plane, that would be a job for commercial divers on surface-supplied gas.
 
Tantalum said:
Thank you


(A) I agree that the state(s) have not done enough to mitigate and solve the issues of water storage. In the UAE they get four inches of yearly rainfall. California by comparison gets 18.. so there's a huge governance issue we have with storing the water

(B) as David points out it is not just California. The Colorado River is low and the Hoover Dam has never been this low. Literally not since it was built, these are actual measurements, not media hype. At the current depletion rate if nothing changes within a few months the water level in Lake Meade will be below the intakes and there will be no more flow through the dam. Not hype, just actual measurements and extrapolating with math

The solutions are myriad.. tons of water goes to farms, tons of it evaporates, tons simply go back to the ocean

The UAE gets practically all their water from thermal desalination. 1600 million gallons of seawater per day are desalinated. In Carlsbad the desalination plant produces a paltry 50 million gallons per day.. for comparison UAE has less than 10 million people while CA has 40 million

The issue is real, and there's lots of work to do
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Lex Luther knew the solution decades ago.
 
How much of the lower water level is due to increased flow through the hydroelectric turbines? As solar and wind are increasingly incorporated, something else has to make up the shortfalls when the skies are cloudy or the winds take a break.

Natural lake levels would be a far more accurate index of drought. Manmade lakes? Not so much.
 
Lake levels in dammed lakes could be due to many factors, as have been mentioned. Drought is probably better measured by rainfall totals, snowpack and vegetation dryness.

Rainfall is cyclical, though. Wasn't is only a few years ago that Lake Oroville took out the spillway because of too much water? That could have been because they mismanaged the level of the lake, but I think there was also an abundance of rain that year. Back in the 1980s it happened at Lake Powell. Read "The Emerald Mile" for a look at how close the dam came to overtopping. Also a cool book for river runners...
 
Dan Thomas said:
How much of the lower water level is due to increased flow through the hydroelectric turbines? As solar and wind are increasingly incorporated, something else has to make up the shortfalls when the skies are cloudy or the winds take a break.
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Politics have as much play in man-made lake water levels. Lake Meade was lowered years ago due to political agreements on the amount of water up and down stream.
 
Steve Costello said:
We've been seriously considering a move to the Sacramento/Napa Valley area, but the two things keeping us from really pulling the trigger are the fires and the water crisis (which are obviously linked). Last thing we want to do is contribute to the problem.
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I heard a water expert make an important distinction between water use and water consumption — that might help you feel a bit better.

When you run your dishwasher or washing machine or take a shower, that's water use — most of the water (80–90%) cycles back and stays in the system.

When you water your lawn, or a farmer irrigates their crops, that's water consumption — almost all of the water is lost to the system.

California's agricultural lobby tries to obfuscate the problem by misleadingly comparing the residential water use (mostly) to agricultural water consumption. Not that population growth isn't an issue (it is), but the main problem is growing cash crops in the desert — it has a huge environmental cost.

So if you do want to move, and are willing to accept hardy, drought-tolerant plants for your lawn and not wash your car in the driveway every weekend, you won't be adding to the problem that much.
 
AggieMike88 said:
They can have some of the monsoon North Texas got last month. My back yard is still 30% underwater
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That kind of severe weather variation has always happened, of course — drought one place, floods another, blizzards, hurricanes, heatwaves, etc — but expect it to be much more common in the future.

Think of oceans as the world's weather batteries, and their average temperature as the amount of charge they're holding — it's getting a touch higher every year.
 
David Megginson said:
So if you do want to move, and are willing to accept hardy, drought-tolerant plants for your lawn and not wash your car in the driveway every weekend, you won't be adding to the problem that much.
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Another consideration is that homeowner's insurance is difficult to get in fire prone areas. Many must go to the state's insurer of last resort, which is very expensive.
 
What's the cost to raise a small aircraft from 125' in a lake?
 
Steve Costello said:
We've been seriously considering a move to the Sacramento/Napa Valley area, but the two things keeping us from really pulling the trigger are the fires and the water crisis (which are obviously linked).
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Why do you want to move here? I have lived in California for 67 years, and there is no way on God's green Earth I would move from America to this state.

Tim
 
timrb said:
Why do you want to move here? I have lived in California for 67 years, and there is no way on God's green Earth I would move from America to this state.

Tim
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I think you might be underselling a great state. If I add up all the time I've spent in California for work, it will come up to well over a year of my life. Granted, most of that time was in LA or SF areas, so I don't know the rest of the state, but I really loved the parts I spent time in (especially the Bay area). I'm fond of NYC too, but I might even pick SF over it if I had to choose between the two.
 
David Megginson said:
So if you do want to move, and are willing to accept hardy, drought-tolerant plants weeds for your lawn....
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Then NM is the place you are looking for.!!

2 weeks ago we had a brief rain shower and the wife and I were out dancing in the rain like in ''Grapes of Wrath''....

Windshield wiper blades do not wear out here, they dry rot.
 
Matthew said:
At the rate some of the global warming and drought posts are going, in about a month it will only be under 25' of water.
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What would that cost be?
 
"The relatives of the deceased from the 1965 plane crash do not wish for others to search for the plane or remains. They would like the final resting place for their family to remain at the bottom of Folsom Lake," the statement said.
As if it's up to them.
 
I hope other folk respect the families wishes.

Whatever is left has been in the lake for about 56 years and has not been a problem.
 
Zeldman said:
Then NM is the place you are looking for.!!

2 weeks ago we had a brief rain shower and the wife and I were out dancing in the rain like in ''Grapes of Wrath''....

Windshield wiper blades do not wear out here, they dry rot.
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Same in this area of Montana.
 
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