1965 Piper Cherokee 180C

[Caramon13]

N8045W - 1965 Piper Cherokee 180 S/N 28-2919

SOLD.

 

[TUPilot]

My Cherokee 180C rolled out of the factory within a week or so of yours (SN 28-2915)

I'm not familiar with this particular 180, but can say in general they are great airplanes for someone looking for an economical plane that can do local flying to mid-range missions and carry a decent load for a four seat airplane. With those avionics this would be a great IFR platform and a great IFR trainer.

 

[Caramon13]

Thanks TUPilot! Wow, yeah you aren't kidding, your serial is only 4 off from mine.

Our tail numbers are pretty far apart though, that's interesting, guess it doesn't have anything to do with that.

 

[Henning]

No, tail numbers often change at owner request, outside of the first of the line which Piper had ended in 00P, they may have left assignment to the FAA. BTW, the BAS harnesses are a really nice upgrade, I think they're one of the best values out there.

 

[Pilawt]

No, tail numbers often change at owner request, outside of the first of the line which Piper had ended in 00P, they may have left assignment to the FAA.

This is useless trivia, of course, but I just need to mentally unwind for a bit.

The first Cherokee to fly (January 1960) was N9315R:

The PA-28-160 certification prototype was N2800W. This same airframe was later modified to serve as the prototype for the PA-28-180 (1962) and PA-28-235 (1963).

(BTW, notice the location of the second rotating beacon on the early Cherokees.)

When the Cherokee 150 and 160 went into production in mid 1961, Piper began with a block of numbers in the N5xxxW series. The early Cherokee 140s (1964) were N6xxxW, while the 180s (late '62) used the '7's and '8's, as with the OP's airplane. Cherokee 235s (late '63) started with N85xxW and went up into the '9's.

The five Cherokees in the movie Goldfinger?

N6056W - PA-28-140
N5781W - PA-28-150
N7489W - PA-28-180
N7641W - PA-28-180
N8729W - PA-28-235​

So for the most part in those early days one could tell the model of Cherokee just by the original registration number.

There. I feel better now.

 

[Caramon13]

Price updated: $54,000 is asking now. Aircraft was professionally appraised and will include an annual for that price.

 

[rbridges]

great plane. I haven't followed the market closely, but half the plane's cost has been invested in 2015 alone. anyone looking for a 180 should really give this one a close look.

 

[2Airtime2]

I've got a question, maybe a dumb one, I'm a newbie.

Why did the major overhaul only last 433 hrs?

Am I understanding this correctly? Major overhaul, then 433 hrs later it got a top overhaul which I believe means the 4 cylinders were replaced/reconditioned along with possibly pistons, rings, and valves.

Where I'm going is, since it has 275 hrs on the top, is another overhaul expected in 158 hrs? Since the 1st one lasted only 433.

 

[Henning]

I've got a question, maybe a dumb one, I'm a newbie.

Why did the major overhaul only last 433 hrs?

Am I understanding this correctly? Major overhaul, then 433 hrs later it got a top overhaul which I believe means the 4 cylinders were replaced/reconditioned along with possibly pistons, rings, and valves.

Where I'm going is, since it has 275 hrs on the top, is another overhaul expected in 158 hrs? Since the 1st one lasted only 433.

No, there are many reasons for getting a low time top overhaul, and I suspect due to the time frame, that the cylinders used at overhaul were a set of nice ECIs that ended up with an AD on them requiring replacement. The replacement cylinders should go the life of the engine.

 

[Caramon13]

Henning is correct, at the top overhaul, all cylinders were replaced. The timing had to do with an AD about that time which I'm sure sucked for the previous owner. Since that top overhaul I've had to repair the #3 cylinder due to low compressions, but as of today, everything is running solid.

 

[James331]

No, tail numbers often change at owner request, outside of the first of the line which Piper had ended in 00P, they may have left assignment to the FAA. BTW, the BAS harnesses are a really nice upgrade, I think they're one of the best values out there.

Yup, look at most 185s or 180s mostly all have custom numbers, plus the planes exported and imported back.

Good luck with the sale, looks like a good flyer.

 

[vfsit]

Please don't take this the wrong way because I hope you get every penny for it, but professionally apraised and what it will actually sell for in this market are 2 totally different things.

 

[iflyvfr]

Value versus cost. There's been a lot of cost, and the seller has demonstrated there may be considerable value in this A/C for the wise buyer. Having it professionally appraised will impress some, put others off. This doesn't appear to be a poor man's Cherokee/fixer upper (I'm not intimating you said so).

In total, the seller has demonstrated (IMO) he is serious about the care and upkeep of his A/C, something from which a buyer may benefit .

 

[Caramon13]

Greg thanks for your thoughts my intention with this plane was to turn it into an IFR powerhouse (for my rating) and keep it flying safe. That has been done at considerable cost as you noted, well beyond the value at the top of the page. And to those that might doubt my intentions, make no mistake, I am not making money on this plane (is that even possible? )

vfsit I appreciate your opinion as well and I do understand that completely. An appraisal is a well formulated opinion based on market values, but in the end it is still just an opinion after all.

I take my family up in this plane (wife and 6 year old). I refuse to get into a plane (mine or otherwise) either by myself or with my family and fly it if I know it's not kept up to standards.

In the rare circumstance I do rent (when out of town), I still insist on the 100 hr inspection records, annual, 50 hr (if applicable, usually oil change), pitot/static/transponder, etc. If they can't produce the items for me, I walk away.

I did a LOT of fine-tuning and adjusting to this plane because when I want to fly, I want to get in the plane and go. That's exactly what you can do with this one.

I've looked at the other 180's on the market now and yeah some are cheaper, some more expensive, but given what I've put in this plane and it's current condition and maintenance status I believe my asking price is in the ballpark of what is reasonable.

I've considered trades for this plane, but honestly, I can't find a single plane online or elsewhere that comes CLOSE to the time/avionics/etc to what I have here in the price-range I'm asking. At the end of the day if I can't sell her I'm fine keeping her. I definitely do want to keep her up in the air though as that's where she shines.

Thanks again for coming here and looking!

 

[AggieMike88]

Help me remember... Trim for this model is on the floor or overhead?

Was electric trim installed?

 

[murphey]

Location?

 

[Pilawt]

Help me remember... Trim for this model is on the floor or overhead?

Overhead on the 'C' model'; on the floor next to the flap handle beginning with the 'D' (mid-1968).

 

[James331]

Greg thanks for your thoughts my intention with this plane was to turn it into an IFR powerhouse (for my rating) and keep it flying safe. That has been done at considerable cost as you noted, well beyond the value at the top of the page. And to those that might doubt my intentions, make no mistake, I am not making money on this plane (is that even possible? )

vfsit I appreciate your opinion as well and I do understand that completely. An appraisal is a well formulated opinion based on market values, but in the end it is still just an opinion after all.

I take my family up in this plane (wife and 6 year old). I refuse to get into a plane (mine or otherwise) either by myself or with my family and fly it if I know it's not kept up to standards.

In the rare circumstance I do rent (when out of town), I still insist on the 100 hr inspection records, annual, 50 hr (if applicable, usually oil change), pitot/static/transponder, etc. If they can't produce the items for me, I walk away.

I did a LOT of fine-tuning and adjusting to this plane because when I want to fly, I want to get in the plane and go. That's exactly what you can do with this one.

I've looked at the other 180's on the market now and yeah some are cheaper, some more expensive, but given what I've put in this plane and it's current condition and maintenance status I believe my asking price is in the ballpark of what is reasonable.

I've considered trades for this plane, but honestly, I can't find a single plane online or elsewhere that comes CLOSE to the time/avionics/etc to what I have here in the price-range I'm asking. At the end of the day if I can't sell her I'm fine keeping her. I definitely do want to keep her up in the air though as that's where she shines.

Thanks again for coming here and looking!

I don't think you're price is very far off, it's got everything one would expect, only thing folks might want would be a GPSS and perhaps vnav on that stec.

Seems fair to me for a turnkey good all around plane

 

[Caramon13]

Help me remember... Trim for this model is on the floor or overhead?

Was electric trim installed?

Pilawt is correct, it's overhead. No electric trim. Honestly I don't use it much other than transitioning from climb to cruise and during landing. The plane flies hands off level trimmed properly, really spoils me compared to some of the other ones I've flown that require CONSTANT input..

murphey: Plane is located in Sarasota, FL.

James: Thanks for that, and yeah I almost added a GPSS, but it was either that or BAS harnesses and while the GPSS is a nice to have, the BAS harnesses were pretty much mandatory for me..safety over convenience anyday. The VNAV would also be nice to have definitely, but trimmed right I don't really need it, the current A/P will hold the localizer/GPS/VOR needle right where it needs to, power back to 1700 ish RPM, no flaps and add a little trim, boom, instant VNAV .

 

[LDJones]

That may be the best-equipped 180C out there. Nice economical IFR platform.

 

[Henning]

One can always add GPSS and VNAV modules to the system, it's not like you'd be replacing what's there, just putting in what, $13k of add ons? Better than $30k for a whole system.

 

[Caramon13]

I got a quote that GPSS was about 2.8K installed. Not sure about VNAV. Also, updated listing, forgot to add this has a Skytec Starter in it and that a corrosion X treatment was done about 5 months ago in June.

 

[Henning]

I got a quote that GPSS was about 2.8K installed. Not sure about VNAV. Also, updated listing, forgot to add this has a Skytec Starter in it and that a corrosion X treatment was done about 5 months ago in June.

A/P axis add on is typically ~$10k.

 

[fiveoboy01]

A/P axis add on is typically ~$10k.

It has altitude hold already, that much more to capture a glideslope? Be gentle, I know nothing about autopilots.

That's a very good price for that airplane. Nicely equipped... all I'd add is GPSS.

 

[Caramon13]

fiveoboy, I know it seems excessive to me as well..

When I was learning it was nice to be able to "almost" autoland a plane using approach mode on a g1000 (C-172). I guess if I was flying this around for work or had an extra 20k lying around I'd put the GPSS in and maybe an Aspen. Definitely wouldn't blow half of that on something that's largely unnecessary.

I saw a Cherokee once that had gone through the entire glass panel conversion, about the same year and model as mine and the owner wanted almost 90K for the plane. Good luck selling a 50 year old Cherokee 180 for 90K, even with all those fancy avionics, it's still a 50 year old Cherokee 180 .

 

[AggieMike88]

even with all those fancy avionics, it's still a 50 year old Cherokee 180 .

Was told about a late 1950's V-tail bonanza that a local pilot bought from an estate for $65k. Had new paint, new motor, new interior, glass on the panel... Story teller figured maybe $150k-175k invested. Upgrading pilot had enjoyed it for 2-years before going west.

So in the end, it was still just a 60 year old aircraft worth $65k, even with all the new expensive upgrades.

 

[TUPilot]

fiveoboy, I know it seems excessive to me as well..

When I was learning it was nice to be able to "almost" autoland a plane using approach mode on a g1000 (C-172). I guess if I was flying this around for work or had an extra 20k lying around I'd put the GPSS in and maybe an Aspen. Definitely wouldn't blow half of that on something that's largely unnecessary.

I saw a Cherokee once that had gone through the entire glass panel conversion, about the same year and model as mine and the owner wanted almost 90K for the plane. Good luck selling a 50 year old Cherokee 180 for 90K, even with all those fancy avionics, it's still a 50 year old Cherokee 180 .

Sadly there is no upgrade option for the STEC30 to vertical speed/GS hold that I know of. STEC offers the 60PSS for around 12K list to add altitude hold, VS hold, and GS to single axis autopilots. They may have a a discounted option available if it can use the existing STEC30 servo, but I'd still plan on it being closer to 10K than anyone would like.

I think I saw that same Cherokee. It was on the market when we started shopping for a PA28, and still on the market months after we bought ours! Nice looking plane, great panel, asking price is bumping into territory for much more capable planes, or much newer aircraft. Even if I wanted to PA28-180 with all the bells and whistles I could go to shop and get a custom job done how I wanted it for not much more than that.

Yours would have been damn tempting had it been on the market at the time for this price!

 

[James331]

Was told about a late 1950's V-tail bonanza that a local pilot bought from an estate for $65k. Had new paint, new motor, new interior, glass on the panel... Story teller figured maybe $150k-175k invested. Upgrading pilot had enjoyed it for 2-years before going west.

So in the end, it was still just a 60 year old aircraft worth $65k, even with all the new expensive upgrades.

Sounds like it was worth way more than that, just didn't have someone administering the estate who cared.

 

[Henning]

It has altitude hold already, that much more to capture a glideslope? Be gentle, I know nothing about autopilots.

That's a very good price for that airplane. Nicely equipped... all I'd add is GPSS.

I would think not since the servo drive already exists. I would think that a coupling box would be significantly less to install. I would GUESS $2000 to get coupled, but you can call an avionics shop and get a real number. Part of due diligence. BTW, the owner probably knows if you ask them.

 

[TUPilot]

I would think not since the servo drive already exists. I would think that a coupling box would be significantly less to install. I would GUESS $2000 to get coupled, but you can call an avionics shop and get a real number. Part of due diligence. BTW, the owner probably knows if you ask them.

By that guess I'll guess you have not dealt with S-Tec autopilots much. They are great systems and very reliable, but any service at all, be it an install, repair, or upgrade, is not going to be in the ballpark of what a sane person would guess!

That said, I can't see the need to upgrade... if all you are missing is VS and GS, who cares? The STEC30 is great as is. Just hope it does not break!

 

[Henning]

By that guess I'll guess you have not dealt with S-Tec autopilots much. They are great systems and very reliable, but any service at all, be it an install, repair, or upgrade, is not going to be in the ballpark of what a sane person would guess!

That said, I can't see the need to upgrade... if all you are missing is VS and GS, who cares? The STEC30 is great as is. Just hope it does not break!

If the drive is there, I'm not seeing where t is an S-TEC limitation, what is probably needed I think is the drive signal from the avionics.

 

[TUPilot]

If the drive is there, I'm not seeing where t is an S-TEC limitation, what is probably needed I think is the drive signal from the avionics.

S-Tec builds the servos as well. So you either need a box that plays with S-Tec (the 60PSS is the only one I know of that is STC'd) or you need to replace the servo (probably with a PET-1 of the appropriate variety), disable the Alt hold of the 30 (don't know the legalities of that) and have some other ALT hold unit that likes the PET-1.

I can't think of any other option that would be approved. Doesn't mean there isn't, but STEC is very careful to restrict what you can do on the paperwork side.

 

[Henning]

S-Tec builds the servos as well. So you either need a box that plays with S-Tec (the 60PSS is the only one I know of that is STC'd) or you need to replace the servo (probably with a PET-1 of the appropriate variety), disable the Alt hold of the 30 (don't know the legalities of that) and have some other ALT hold unit that likes the PET-1.

I can't think of any other option that would be approved. Doesn't mean there isn't, but STEC is very careful to restrict what you can do on the paperwork side.

Oh yeah, that is why I wouldn't buy an S-Tec A/P. I had found a perfectly good 60-3 (yaw damper included) in a 310D and I contacted S-TEC about getting a new STC for it in my plane. "Sure, send it back to us, and for $<price of new unit> we'll send it back with a new STC." '**** you'. Screw them. I was looking out for a good deal on a Cessna 400 series I could install under the TCDS.

 

[Manderson]

My Cherokee 180C rolled out of the factory within a week or so of yours (SN 28-2915)

How about that! I'm in the process of purchasing 28-2914!

 

[Caramon13]

EDIT: Price updated, plane is current with annual until 4/2016.

 

[rbridges]

I got a quote that GPSS was about 2.8K installed. Not sure about VNAV. Also, updated listing, forgot to add this has a Skytec Starter in it and that a corrosion X treatment was done about 5 months ago in June.

the STEC GPSS is relatively inexpensive compared to some things. I actually bought mine used on ebay; the previous owner upgraded to an Aspen. All in, I think it was around 2k installed.

Call me lazy, but the GPSS is very nice to have. The heading bug can do a lot, but it's neat to watch the plane follow the flight plan in the 430.

 

[Henning]

the STEC GPSS is relatively inexpensive compared to some things. I actually bought mine used on ebay; the previous owner upgraded to an Aspen. All in, I think it was around 2k installed.

Call me lazy, but the GPSS is very nice to have. The heading bug can do a lot, but it's neat to watch the plane follow the flight plan in the 430.

To have a full WAAS box and an autopilot and not have some GPSS input, would seem to be awfully wasteful to me. Why stop at 95% when the last 5% is a pretty significant feature if the chips are down, and that's why we buy automation.

 

[Caramon13]

Henning, the reason I personally stopped is because I went through my entire budget (and then some) on this plane this year. GPSS is not a requirement for anything I do and it doesn't add anything I can't do already in the plane with a couple more button presses. It also doesn't pay for itself or add that much more value relative to what it costs.

I'd much rather spend the 2K+ on ADS-B compliance then a "nice to have". That's if I had 2K+ left to spend on anything, which I don't.

But I get what you're saying, it does "complete" the experience.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

ask Henning what kind of autopilot his plane had.....

 

[Henning]

ask Henning what kind of autopilot his plane had.....

Hand flown baby, AP is for people who don't actually like to fly, they just want to say so. Actually I was going to put in a STEC 60-3 that found in a 310D, but to get the STC STEC was going to charge me the same price as a new one. So I had my eye out for a Cessna 400 I could install in the TC.