172 vs 177 vs 182

PeterNSteinmetz said:
How so?
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I no longer am an owner of the plane so I can't provide pictures, but it runs below the armrest to below roughly the headset jack position on each side. The door travel was reduced a bit, and there's an ugly thing that somehow knows how to attract the headset cords. (reworking the headset jacks had to be done, but I don't blame that on the ugly, useless, piece of ****e)
 
182 would clearly be the winner for performance / utility if you can afford it.

PA28’s you probably get the most bang for your buck. You can get a well equipped one avionics wise with a low to mid time engine for the same amount of money you’d spend on a 172 with original equipment.

177’s are fine IF you get the spar checked for corrosion first. If not that 60k plane can balloon into a 90k plane in an instant. Cessna makes those spars as needed and they are about 30k without labor. If you haven’t been in one I’d suggest trying it out as I don’t find the Cardinal that easy to get in, at least for the RG model. The gear leg is behind the door so unless you bring a portable step out its quite a step up to get in for some. The wing is also low and I need to duck to be under the wing where a 172 or 182 wing is higher.

If you can get a 172M, N or P with 180HP it’s a pretty capable plane. You know exactly what you are getting. Parts are plentiful, no potential 10k bill if your constant speed prop doesn’t pass. No overly expensive AD issues that are known. You can probably sell it quickly 500hrs later for the same price you invest in it now.
 
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I started with a 172 and now own a 177RG.

The Cardinal is much smoother in turbulence than our 172 was. I’d expect a 182 to handle bumps better than the 177 but it’s been a long time since I’ve flown in one. The 177 is much more of a finger-tip flyer than my 172 was, especially in the landing flare. The stabilator on the Cardinal is very effective.

I do Angel Flights and my passengers routinely tell me that the Cardinal is the most comfortable plane that they’ve flown in. They fly in a lot more types than I do, and aren’t feeling very well on many of their flights, so I think that says something.

My Cardinal sits a few inches lower than my 172 did, and lower than any 182 that I’ve parked next to. The lower stance and that big door makes it easy for most to get in the plane without a step. Even most of my passengers with limited mobility can just turn and sit down into the front passenger seat.

I flight plane for 165MPH in my RG at 9.5 to 10 GPH depending on what altitude I will fly at.

Maintenance has not been significantly higher on my 177RG than it was on my 172 and I’ve had no problem getting any parts I’ve needed. Like all the legacy Cessna’s, that may change but no more than I would expect it to for any of the other legacy planes.

The cardinals should have the spars checked for corrosion but don’t have the same problems as the 210’s and serious problems on a 210 are pretty rare. Cessna put insulation on the bottom of the spars in some of their 210’s. That can trap water and can cause problems. Cessna didn’t put the insulation on the bottom of the 177 spars.

Of all the Cardinal Owners that have reported the results of their spar inspections on Cardinal flyers Organization since the service bulletin came out, only one had a problem that required replacing the spar. That one was due to damage that was done when someone gouged deep cuts into the spar while doing a previous repair. It was not due to corrosion.

I’d suggest you and your wife try to rent or get a ride in a 177 and a 182 before you make your choice. That’s the best way to decide what you’d end up liking after you make the buy.

You should be able to get a good fixed gear Cardinal for $60K. I’d be happy to send you contact info for a great buyer’s assistant for Cardinals. He’s recognized as the go-to guy to do a pre-buy and frequently gets a line on good Cardinals coming up for sale before they get listed on any of the sales sites.

Good Cardinals sell very fast though so if you think you’ll want to go that way you’ll want to have everything lined up before you seriously start shopping. It’s not unusual for them to sell within a few days of being listed and it’s not uncommon for them to sell the same day.

Never commit to buying one without it being contingent on a good pre-buy but don’t expect to be able to wait long to get the purchase discussion started with a seller. If the buyer won’t work with you on waiting for a pre-purchase inspection by your choice of inspector I’d run far and fast from that plane.

gary
 
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GaryV said:
I started with a 172 and now own a 177RG.

The cardinals should have the spars checked for corrosion but don’t have the same problems as the 210’s. Cessna put insulation on the bottom of the spars in some of their 210’s. That can trap water and can cause problems. Of all the Cardinal Owners that have reported the results of their spar inspections on Cardinal flyers Organization since the service bulletin came out only one had a problem that required replacing the spar. That was due to damage that was done when someone gouged deep cuts into the spar while doing a previous repair. It was. It was not due to corrosion.
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The Cardinals do have a corrosion issue because of the CAT tubing installed by Cessna for the overhead vents. Cessna ran them through the lightening holes on the spar. Once the cloth breaks down the rusty steel wire drips moisture down onto the spar where moisture collects and corrosion starts. If you only look at the rear side of the spar you’ll probably find it totally acceptable since the front of the spar (only visible by removing the entire forward headliner) is angled up and retains the moisture. In any case make sure to replace those CAT hoses with SCAT if not already done.
 
WDD said:
I think you have a critical point that to address:

"With a budget of let's say < $60k is a 177/182 *worth buying* even a possibility?"

I don't know of any 182, or 177 that you would want for that money. And you can't stand the 172. Thus the only options I can think of is to find a club with a 182 and rent, or double / triple your budget for a 182.
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This here is the key for me personally. $60k gets a decent PA28. If $60k can't get anything better than a 172 or shoddy 177/182, then I'll go back to my Piper plans.

Not really looking to triple the budget as then we're talking financing vs cash money, and I'm probably going to need to sleep in it when the wife kicks me out.
 
You could look into a 182A or B model. They go for around 60k for a nice one. Usually a bit lighter than the newer ones and they are preferred for backcountry ops.
 
If 60k is your hard-stop, then that really makes your decision for you. I think the 182 is the best all-around piston single - does pretty much everything, just not tops in any one category. Short field, unimproved field, long distance, short hop, easy mx, long range.

But again, if budget is the hard stop you need to make hard choices. My flying mentor once told me “Nobody does cheap better than Piper” and he meant it as a compliment (he was also a long-time Cessna dealer.) I have owned 3 Pipers, 2 Cessnas, a Beech and a Luscombe and I have to agree with him.
 
C182 prices have skyrocketed in the the last 18 months. Perhaps the economic slowdown we experienced will help lower the prices to more reasonable levels in the next 6-12 months. Some of the asking prices are ridiculous.
 
We bought our 68' Cardinal for under 40k a couple of years ago. It had around 2300 on the airframe and about 1500 on the since the last engine overhaul so not exactly low time but certainly not run out. There are good ones to be found out there for your price point.
 
Pilawt said:
There are few if any parts in common between the 177 and other Cessnas.
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Actually, the most commonly replaced parts are common across all Cessnas, or are very well served by our type club* working with Cessna and after-market suppliers to make both reconditioned and new replacement parts available.

*Cardinal Flyers www.cardinalflyers.com

The last Cardinal was built 42 years ago, and availability of parts may become an issue with the passage of time.
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Cessna support continues to be good, and the aftermarket has been very responsive. That's the power of type clubs... you can bring together interested owners to make a launch order for a part, incenting folks to make them available.

Paul
 
asicer said:
177: Get a some W&B charts and plug in your loads. Some might run out of CG range.
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Generally not too difficult... if you've got a couple of 250 pounders in the front seat, and no one in back, you might need a case of oil or two in the baggage compartment.

Paul
 
Kansas Flyer said:
We bought our 68' Cardinal for under 40k a couple of years ago. It had around 2300 on the airframe and about 1500 on the since the last engine overhaul so not exactly low time but certainly not run out. There are good ones to be found out there for your price point.
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Do you fly it much at night? I have flow the heck out of it in the dark and never really liked how crappy the taxi lighting is with the stock GE 4509s. The distance of the lights from airplane center line seem to be a pretty big contributor. I haven't had a chance to fly it with the new 95 watt Aeroled Sunspot but looking forward to trying them.

The 150 horse 177 is a great buy for flatlanders that can successfully manage W&B IHMO.
 
bnt83 said:
Do you fly it much at night? I have flow the heck out of it in the dark and never really liked how crappy the taxi lighting is with the stock GE 4509s. The distance of the lights from airplane center line seem to be a pretty big contributor. I haven't had a chance to fly it with the new 95 watt Aeroled Sunspot but looking forward to trying them.

The 150 horse 177 is a great buy for flatlanders that can successfully manage W&B IHMO.
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I probably have 20-25 hours in it at night over the last couple of years with the stock lights and it hasn't been an issue for me.

The 150 hp was a good deal for us. I wouldn't be excited to take it way up in the mountains but it definitely gets us where we want to go and being able to use mogas saves a fair amount.
 
I think your biggest issue is your budget. Once again I will recommend that you consider a partnership so you can get more plane in your price range. Even one partner at that price point allows you to get into a very nice well equipped 182. It can be hard to find a good partner(s) but if you can make it work t works well.
 
pigpenracing said:
What is wrong with a 175? Cheaper than a 172 and real close to 182 performance. I just sold this one to my hangar neighbor for $43,000!
It is a awesome airplane and runs circles around the 172 M I had.
I am happy I sold it to a good friend and still get to fly it whenever I want.... Not sure why everyone overlooks the 172? I love that GO-300 it is smooth as silk.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/just-picked-up-a-sweet-175.121729/
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That’s a really nice looking bird, but 140mph is still pretty far off. That’s only 120kts. Useful load is probably a pretty good ways off, too.
 
Rcmutz said:
C182 prices have skyrocketed in the the last 18 months. Perhaps the economic slowdown we experienced will help lower the prices to more reasonable levels in the next 6-12 months. Some of the asking prices are ridiculous.
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