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OneCharlieTango said:
What conditions are there that a Class 3 exam would detect but a BM exam wouldn’t, which are known to have caused pilot incapacitation? That’s really what this boils down to.
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And which physician is more likely to be aware of a potentially problematic health condition? An AME you see once every 2 years, or your personal physician?
 
Half Fast said:
Yes. When Basic Med pilots complete the required online course, the record of completion goes to the FAA and shows in the airman database.
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It SHOULD, but may not.
 
TCABM said:
The FAA Class 3 is an albatross, but not for the reasons most if y’all think. The one thing it gives you is wide acceptance internationally. Most nations just use the ICAO first/second class medicals.

Drop the class 3 and the small number of pilots that use GA for international stuff will be limited to those countries that accept BM or they’ll have to jump to a Class 2.
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Good point I didn’t realize. Thank you.
 
“FAA to employ the 3rd Class Medical
exam form a state-licensed physician uses in completing a comprehensive BasicMed
examination.”

What does this verbiage mean exactly? I seen it on an AOPA article and Flying magazine.
 
Skymac said:
“FAA to employ the 3rd Class Medical
exam form a state-licensed physician uses in completing a comprehensive BasicMed
examination.”

What does this verbiage mean exactly? I seen it on an AOPA article and Flying magazine.
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Are you referring to this article?

It looks like the writer misunderstood what the purpose of section 828(a)(2) in the reauthorization statute. The BasicMed comprehensive medical examination checklist (CMEC, FAA Form 8700-2) is based off of the FAA form used to apply for a part 67 medical certificate. Nowadays that application is in the MedXpress system, but it is based off of the FAA Form 8500-8.

For some reason, the original statute specified "FAA Form 8500-8 (3-99)". I'm not sure why they chose that form, other than perhaps that was he only version of 8500-8 available if you searched for it on the web (the FAA no longer publishes it as it is now in MedXpress). Nevertheless, that 3-99 version of the form was slightly different from the current form, specifically regarding question 18v, which has to do with DUIs. Originally the form only asked about convictions. Subsequent versions asked about arrests and convictions. This is significant as many DUI charges are oftened pled down to lesser charges that are not reportable. As a result, the state licensed physician doesn't have a complete picture of a potential substance abuse issue.
 
Brad Z said:
When does it not?
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When you do the Mayo Clinic version.

I did it, got the certificate, never showed up on FAA database. It even come up on a forum, maybe here, and I contacted someone there directly and supposedly it was done, but it still doesn't show up.

Back to AOPA for my next one.
 
Pinecone said:
When you do the Mayo Clinic version.

I did it, got the certificate, never showed up on FAA database. It even come up on a forum, maybe here, and I contacted someone there directly and supposedly it was done, but it still doesn't show up.

Back to AOPA for my next one.
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Yeah, I had difficulties with Mayo, too, but my course date does show up. Like you, I'll go back to AOPA. I think the AOPA has a better course, anyway. Mayo has more emphasis on risk assessment and management stuff than actual medical information.
 
I'm glad to see Basicmed getting expanded even more. I have never understood however why we are allowed to fly IFR in a busy Bravo, yet not allowed into the flight levels. The expansion doesn't open it up as much as a guy thinks to various aircraft if we are still needlessly limited to 18k. Was personally hoping to see that limitation lifted.
 
Jereme Carne said:
I'm glad to see Basicmed getting expanded even more. I have never understood however why we are allowed to fly IFR in a busy Bravo, yet not allowed into the flight levels. The expansion doesn't open it up as much as a guy thinks to various aircraft if we are still needlessly limited to 18k. Was personally hoping to see that limitation lifted.
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Picking a specific altitude is arbitrary. But a case could be made that high altitude potentially makes conditions visible that are invisible on the ground. Why 18K instead of, say, 25k where a high altitude endorsement is already required? Or 14,500, where O2 is required?

No one hates Class 3 more than I do. If I were King of FAA Medical, I’d expand DL medical to cover everything presently covered by Class 3. BUT, I’d limit the altitude. Honestly, I’d limit it to where things get significant physiologically. That’s probably like 10,000. For the sake of regs already on the books, I’d probably say 12,500 or 14,500.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
No one hates Class 3 more than I do. If I were King of FAA Medical, I’d expand DL medical to cover everything presently covered by Class 3. BUT, I’d limit the altitude. Honestly, I’d limit it to where things get significant physiologically. That’s probably like 10,000. For the sake of regs already on the books, I’d probably say 12,500 or 14,500.
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Why? There’s nothing at all in the class 3 medical that addresses blood oxygen or altitude tolerance or anything related. Why would getting a class 3 (which is essentially the same exam as Basic) make a person any safer at altitude? Basic Med is just as safe in the flight levels as class 3.
 
You’re absolutely right. I’m just saying what I would do if I could personally overhaul the system. As it is, it ignores things that might matter and focuses on things that don’t.

Maybe, instead of a limitation, make high altitude physiology a bigger part of the BM education portion. That conflicts with my desire to get rid of medical exams entirely, but it addresses what I think is the only medical thing that’s aviation-specific. Perhaps we could do away with the physical exam part and keep the online instruction. The AOPA course is the best medical information for a non-medical audience I’ve ever seen.
 
Might it be with the speeds associated with the altitudes? Oxygen comes into play well below the floor of class A, but I can see that it might be an ATC "convenience" to exclude relative slowpokes from the high speed traffic - just in the interest of overall efficiency if nothing else.
 
dbahn said:
Might it be with the speeds associated with the altitudes? Oxygen comes into play well below the floor of class A, but I can see that it might be an ATC "convenience" to exclude relative slowpokes from the high speed traffic - just in the interest of overall efficiency if nothing else.
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I don’t think that’s it.

If so, medicals are a crappy way to go about it. Instead, they could set a minimum airspeed for the flight levels. As it is, a slowpoke with a class 3 can be up there. Heck, gliders go to those altitudes.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Maybe, instead of a limitation, make high altitude physiology a bigger part of the BM education portion.
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And that’s another thing....

Class 3 has no education component at all. None, zilch, nada. So how is it any better than Basic? Is it even as good?
 
dbahn said:
Might it be with the speeds associated with the altitudes? Oxygen comes into play well below the floor of class A, but I can see that it might be an ATC "convenience" to exclude relative slowpokes from the high speed traffic - just in the interest of overall efficiency if nothing else.
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I personally doubt it as the reason. A lot less traffic in the flight levels compared to the terminal environment (not to underscore what center controllers do). If traffic was the concern we wouldn't be allowed into the busy terminal areas.

With the current weight limitations not many aircraft are going to want to be in the flight levels; with the expansion however, it makes way more sense to drop that limitation.

Just wanted to point out yet another regulation with no merit that we may fight for in the future. Haha
 
Half Fast said:
Why? There’s nothing at all in the class 3 medical that addresses blood oxygen or altitude tolerance or anything related.…
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There’s nothing in any class of FAA medical exam that addresses those things. Literally nothing. But that’s beside the point.

The reason the BasicMed is limited the way it is because of what’s written in Section 2307 of the 2016 FAA extension act. Congress passed the law which specifically defined a covered aircraft AND establishes the lawful limitations of an individual operating under BasicMed. Flip to page 130 of the law and it’s clearly spelled out. The only thing the FAA could do is adopt those limits verbatim.

Want it changed? Go buy enough Congressmen to get it changed.
 
TCABM said:
There’s nothing in any class of FAA medical exam that addresses those things. Literally nothing. But that’s beside the point.

The reason the BasicMed is limited the way it is because of what’s written in Section 2307 of the 2016 FAA extension act. Congress passed the law which specifically defined a covered aircraft AND establishes the lawful limitations of an individual operating under BasicMed. Flip to page 130 of the law and it’s clearly spelled out. The only thing the FAA could do is adopt those limits verbatim.

Want it changed? Go buy enough Congressmen to get it changed.
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Oh, I agree. We were just playing a little game of what-if.
 
Half Fast said:
And that’s another thing....

Class 3 has no education component at all. None, zilch, nada. So how is it any better than Basic? Is it even as good?
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Why wouldn't that remain a component of pilot training? It's literally in the PHoAK Not sure why the medical class would have ANY educational component.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Why wouldn't that remain a component of pilot training? It's literally in the PHoAK Not sure why the medical class would have ANY educational component.
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It would but the pilot certificate is a one-time deal. The Basic Med course is every 2 years whereas class 3 has no training at all.

I could argue that Basic is superior to class 3 because it has a recurring training component.
 
Jereme Carne said:
I'm glad to see Basicmed getting expanded even more. I have never understood however why we are allowed to fly IFR in a busy Bravo, yet not allowed into the flight levels. The expansion doesn't open it up as much as a guy thinks to various aircraft if we are still needlessly limited to 18k. Was personally hoping to see that limitation lifted.
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BasicMed was intended by congress to allow GA pilot engaged in lower-risk operations to fly with a medical certificate. Operations at altitudes that require constant administration of oxygen and time periods of useful consciousness without it are only a couple minutes for the most healthy pilots are hardly considered low-risk operations.
 
TCABM said:
There’s nothing in any class of FAA medical exam that addresses those things. Literally nothing. But that’s beside the point.
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The key risk prevention strategy within the part 67 certification system is a medical history review for conditions that could prove risky at altitude. The vast majority of the risk mitigation of a medical certificate is from the medical history review; the physical examination mitigates only a very small proportion of the risk.
 
Brad Z said:
BasicMed was intended by congress to allow GA pilot engaged in lower-risk operations to fly with a medical certificate. Operations at altitudes that require constant administration of oxygen and time periods of useful consciousness without it are only a couple minutes for the most healthy pilots are hardly considered low-risk operations.
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One of the better theories I have seen. Although now we are talking about the potential to fly small jets or even some turboprops; hardly small risk to the average GA pilot with that level of complexity.

Yet again, a 3rd class doesn't address the risk you mentioned either. At the end of the day it's an arbitrary number to make someone feel better; not about having merit.
 
Brad Z said:
The key risk prevention strategy within the part 67 certification system is a medical history review for conditions that could prove risky at altitude. The vast majority of the risk mitigation of a medical certificate is from the medical history review; the physical examination mitigates only a very small proportion of the risk.
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Ever seen a medical with an altitude restriction (similar to a corrective lens restriction)?
 
Brad Z said:
BasicMed was intended by congress to allow GA pilot engaged in lower-risk operations to fly with a medical certificate. Operations at altitudes that require constant administration of oxygen and time periods of useful consciousness without it are only a couple minutes for the most healthy pilots are hardly considered low-risk operations.
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That applies to flights that allowed under Basic Med. Just a bit long TUC
 
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