141 vs 61

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Ryan DePascalis

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I’m looking into a Part 141 or 61 school, if the cost of 141 is worth it over 61. Of course the 141 schools have nicer more technically advanced aircrafts the the part 61 aircrafts in my area. In my eyes training in newer airplanes would be more beneficial to equip me for airlines. In my area it’s almost 70,000-80,000$ for a “zero to hero” pilot program. Guaranteeing me with an airline job in two years. 61 schools would cross quite a bit less but also the airplanes are from late 60’s as well as taking longer to complete training. I just turned 22 and with the signing bonuses of regionals and tuition reimbursement being offered does is a 141 school worth it?
 
I’m looking into a Part 141 or 61 school, if the cost of 141 is worth it over 61. I would have to pull a loan out. Of course the 141 schools have nicer more technically advanced aircrafts the the part 61 aircrafts in my area. In my eyes training in newer airplanes would be more beneficial to equip me for airlines. In my area it’s almost 70,000-80,000$ for a “zero to hero” pilot program. Guaranteeing me with an airline job in two years. 61 schools would cross quite a bit less but also the airplanes are from late 60’s as well as taking longer to complete training. I just turned 22 and with the signing bonuses of regionals and tuition reimbursement being offered is a 141 school worth it?
 
If the 141 is on the FAA's list for Restricted-ATP, you can get your ATP with less than 1,500 hours. That would jump start your career a little sooner.

With current economic and airline events, I'm wondering if the hiring boom is about to come to a screeching halt.
 
There will still be a pilot shortage on the other side of this event. Surely hiring will slow or stop until people start flying again. The question is how long will that be, and what will staring pay/signing bonuses look like when hiring resumes.

Ryan, the good news is that you are young. If flying airliners is your passion, go for it. If you are just starting out, you have a couple of years to train while the industry figures out the impact of this virus.

As far as 141 vs 61, I chose 61 due to my schedule and the flexibility it gave to fine tune training to my specific needs. But I didn’t need financing either. I know that is one of the big factors in going with some of these zero to hero programs.

ATP is at my home field. They do appear to have a larger fleet of planes with more modern avionics. My school has several G1000 equipped planes, though. So 61 doesn’t always mean old ragged out planes (although that really does seem to be true at times) I still think there is a benefit to learning initial and doing enough instrument to be comfortable with steam gauges. Glass is a pretty easy transition once you have the fundamentals down.
 
snglecoil said:
There will still be a pilot shortage on the other side of this event. Surely hiring will slow or stop until people start flying again. The question is how long will that be, and what will staring pay/signing bonuses look like when hiring resumes.

Ryan, the good news is that you are young. If flying airliners is your passion, go for it. If you are just starting out, you have a couple of years to train while the industry figures out the impact of this virus.

As far as 141 vs 61, I chose 61 due to my schedule and the flexibility it gave to fine tune training to my specific needs. But I didn’t need financing either. I know that is one of the big factors in going with some of these zero to hero programs.

ATP is at my home field. They do appear to have a larger fleet of planes with more modern avionics. My school has several G1000 equipped planes, though. So 61 doesn’t always mean old ragged out planes (although that really does seem to be true at times) I still think there is a benefit to learning initial and doing enough instrument to be comfortable with steam gauges. Glass is a pretty easy transition once you have the fundamentals down.
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Huh?


But to the OP, it doesn’t matter, some of the higher end specialized training and better CFIs lean towards 61, but ether way.
 
James331 said:
Huh?


But to the OP, it doesn’t matter, some of the higher end specialized training and better CFIs lean towards 61, but ether way.
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True, but many 141 large schools have agreements with regional airlines for a guaranteed position. That cannot be over looked (although quite honestly the regionals will take most anyone).
 
If you sign a 141 contract be sure you can get out. Ask yourself what if:

What if: I find their Mtx unacceptable?
What if: I just don't like the way they treat their students?
What if: I decide flying is not for me?
What if: I meet the girl of my dreams and get her pregnant and I have to stop flying to support my family?
What if: They go out of business while holding a big chunk of my money?
What if: I get killed (for any reason) and they have a big chunk of my money?
What if: They don't like me and kick me out and they have a big chunk of my money?
What if: I don't get an airline offer at the end?

These contracts are a big deal. Aside from a house it is probably the biggest financial commitment you will make (unless you have a taste for luxury cars). I make no judgment, I only say be careful.
 
I think it's sorta funny and a little ironic how the OP placed emphasis on TAA and newer aircraft as a condition of deciding on 141 or 61 training. You do realize that if you go into regional's that you will be probably flying a plane older than the one you trained in, with older technology right? Average age of commercial aircraft is 10-15 years old, with others being much older.

You aren't going to just hop into a 787 with glass panels.

What's wrong with training on older aircraft? Given the choice I'd much rather go part 61 and learn on my own then go 141 and be locked into a linear path.
 
That was my decision 40 years ago when I went 61, qualified for all my certificates and ratings the second summer I was flying and then paid my way through college flight instructing. Meanwhile, the 141 folks had 3 more years of paying to fly.
 
Ryan DePascalis said:
Guaranteeing me with an airline job in two years.
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There ain't no guarantees in life son. They can promise you anything they want, but there is no such thing as guarantee. Especially when it comes to airline hiring of those who were flipping burgers two years ago.

If airline flying is the goal, get your ratings as cheaply and quickly as possible. Then get a flying job that gets you as many hours as possible. I would bet money whatever that first job is, CFI, skydiving, aerial survey etc, its going to be a flying a plane that's older than you are. So no one is going to care that you did your training behind a glass panel.
 
Those Part 141 schools don't really publicize that you're essentially going to do the same thing as Part 61 people do. Get your CFI/CFII and instruct for the last 1250 hours, give or take. And you'll do it at a lower rate than if you are a freelance CFI/CFII. Also, with all the upgrading people are doing with their panels, you may well be getting a TAA in that 1960s/1970s airplane. Further, there are plenty of Part 141 schools snapping up older 172s and Cherokees to fill in the gaps.
 
Kritchlow said:
True, but many 141 large schools have agreements with regional airlines for a guaranteed position. That cannot be over looked (although quite honestly the regionals will take most anyone).
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Like you said anyone who can fog a mirror and qualifies for a ATP can get a crappy regional job.
 
He said guarantee.
giphy.gif

:D
 
I don't think so, and I have instructed under both 61 and 141...
Employers do not care where you were trained, only that you have the required experience and certificates.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
There ain't no guarantees in life son. They can promise you anything they want, but there is no such thing as guarantee. Especially when it comes to airline hiring of those who were flipping burgers two years ago.
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Especially given what's going on today. I can't tell you what this industry is going to look like in 3-6 months, let alone 2 years.
 
kayoh190 said:
Especially given what's going on today. I can't tell you what this industry is going to look like in 3-6 months, let alone 2 years.
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50% of the 121 pilots are timing out within 5 years. It is still a thing.
 
N1120A said:
50% of the 121 pilots are timing out within 5 years. It is still a thing.
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What's happening to the airline industry right now is unprecedented. Retirements will help (it's not 50% in 5 years, however there ARE a lot), but we're in full blown survival mode at this point. Hopefully this thing will blow through and travel demand will return quickly, but nobody really has any idea what to expect. Especially not some 141 mill guaranteeing an airline job.
 
kayoh190 said:
What's happening to the airline industry right now is unprecedented. Retirements will help (it's not 50% in 5 years, however there ARE a lot), but we're in full blown survival mode at this point. Hopefully this thing will blow through and travel demand will return quickly, but nobody really has any idea what to expect. Especially not some 141 mill guaranteeing an airline job.
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There's cause for caution, but I don't think cause for alarm just get.
 
Personally I never liked the feel of 141 schools. They were too rigid for me. I probably took longer than necessary to get my license, but I enjoyed the ride. And I learned/experienced a lot more than I would have in a 141 setting.
 
Your question should be which can get you to atp minimums quicker, and compare that to a realistic cost. Not published minimums.
 
Personally I like the training under 61 better. I have done both, but prefer the more “at my own pace” of 61.

Employers? They don’t care, but with a caveat... some 141 schools have guaranteed jobs with the regionals, which will likely lead to a job with a major.

That said, and as I’ve said before, a regional pilot job is not the hardest thing on the planet to achieve.
 
ja_user said:
Your question should be which can get you to atp minimums quicker, and compare that to a realistic cost. Not published minimums.
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True. There is no flight school on the planet that can instantly put you in a regional airline. You need an ATP for that, and that requires a *bit* of experience. They can give you a CFI job to meet that, but that will likely take 18 months +/-

So the whole “zero to hero” thing is not really true since they are only talking commercial grade certificate. You really need Airline Transport grade.
 
Kritchlow said:
some 141 schools have guaranteed jobs with the regionals,
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Guaranteed interview sure, but guaranteed job? What if you're and a-hole and you completely suck? Are they still required to hire you?
 
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