123.4 and 123.45 (Finger & Fingers)

weirdjim

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weirdjim
There is some widespread believe in the community that 123.4 and 123.45 are legitimate chatter frequencies. The probably stems from long-haul airliners going across the pond to Europe or the other pond to Asia.

These frequencies are widely used over International waters where there is absolutely nothing wrong with using them ... over International waters.

When it comes to using them over the United States and coastal waters, there is a BIG problem. The FCC reserves these two frequencies to stations individually licensed to commercial aircraft and accessory manufacturers to use as flight test frequencies. They go on further to say that the aircraft may ONLY communicate with their associated company ground stations and may NOT be used for air to air communications of any sort.

Here is the deal. A manufacturer sets up a test for (let's say, antennas) and rents an aircraft and pilot, sets up a lot of engineering equipment, starts the test, and an hour into it Bubba comes on the data downlink frequency chatting with Billy Bob about the ribs over at Sally's diner. So goes a couple of thousand dollars worth of test data.

Each manufacturer is required to go through a coordinating agency and check with other manufacturers within a 200 mile radius to eliminate any confusion.

The FCC fine for using these frequencies illegally is $10k for EACH transmission ... each time the PTT is pushed.

Like Clint Eastwood said, "Feel lucky, Punk, well, do 'ya?"

It isn't rocket science to do a direction finding operation and track an offending aircraft to their home airport. And there are ways from there to figure out what aircraft it was. Not rocket science, especially with ADSB.

Jim
 
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And exactly how many times has someone been prosecuted for such a heinous a crime? Probably as often as the guys on the ham bands for spewing their racist and profanity ridden diatribes.
 
The chance of getting busted by the FCC, might as well buy a lotto ticket.
 
And exactly how many times has someone been prosecuted for such a heinous a crime? Probably as often as the guys on the ham bands for spewing their racist and profanity ridden diatribes.
The chance of getting busted by the FCC, might as well buy a lotto ticket.
Yeah, gotta agree here. Heard much chatter on the freqs but NEVER anyone getting busted for it. I suppose it may happen at some point, but unlikely.
Still doesn’t make it okay I guess.
 
So what IS the correct way to accomplish air-to-air comms for a group of aircraft flying together.
 
Around here, Boeing IS listening & recording, and they do file FCC complaints.
 
And exactly how many times has someone been prosecuted for such a heinous a crime? Probably as often as the guys on the ham bands for spewing their racist and profanity ridden diatribes.

You might want to ask that of the Coors Silver Bullet team that got seriously nailed a few years ago.
 
And exactly how many times has someone been prosecuted for such a heinous a crime? Probably as often as the guys on the ham bands for spewing their racist and profanity ridden diatribes.
Well, sonny, there are TWO way of being "prosecuted". One is a federal rap and most large airframe manufacturers will be most happy to turn their tapes over to the FCC. The other way is for a manufacturer to take you to small claims court for unlawful interference and you'd be surprised how many of those are upheld. Like I said, the first time I give you a pass. THe second time it is either FCC time OR small claims, whichever I choose.
 
Around here, Boeing IS listening & recording, and they do file FCC complaints.
There are half a dozen of us in the Sacramento area and if we aren't running a test, we aren't monitoring the frequency(ies). When we lose hours of data, we take action, one way or the other. Any community that has a manufacturing facility (within 200 miles) that loses data is generally pi$$3d off enough to get N-numbers and file a complaint.
 
And exactly how many times has someone been prosecuted for such a heinous a crime? Probably as often as the guys on the ham bands for spewing their racist and profanity ridden diatribes.
So it is OK to bust a federal regulation if you don't thing you are going to get caught? What in the hell happened to honor in this profession? It is one thing to see that amateurs are shining the rules on and another to see that professionals are abusing the process.

Or are you absenting yourself from aviation professionalism?

Jim
 
I’ve seen people fined, and remember this is just like FAA... administrative law.

There’s no “prosecution”. FCC gathers data, sends a letter, and if you don’t fight the claim they make, a judge orders your wages garnished.

If you think you’re going to get due process with the FCC, think “not even a PBOR” in the bad old dats with FAA, and you’ll know how it works.

A complaint from Boeing goes a long way in DC, right or wrong. I wouldn’t poke the bear.
 
So it is OK to bust a federal regulation if you don't thing you are going to get caught? What in the hell happened to honor in this profession? It is one thing to see that amateurs are shining the rules on and another to see that professionals are abusing the process.

Or are you absenting yourself from aviation professionalism?

Jim

No

But because your post was so uptight, I’m going to say “meow” on guard tomorrow, see what you made me do! Hope you’re happy lol
 
So it is OK to bust a federal regulation if you don't thing you are going to get caught? What in the hell happened to honor in this profession? It is one thing to see that amateurs are shining the rules on and another to see that professionals are abusing the process.

Or are you absenting yourself from aviation professionalism?

Jim

Question 1: "So it is OK to bust a federal regulation if you don't thing you are going to get caught?"

Much bigger discussion but sometimes the answer is yes regardless of whether you are going to get caught or not.

Question 2: "What in the hell happened to honor in this profession?"

Nothing as best I can tell.

Question 3: "are you absenting yourself from aviation professionalism?"

Nope, rarely use radios these days actually although I think I might still know how. The plane I am flying most lately has no electrical system and and unshielded ignition system so radios are almost useless. Can't remember ever using 123.45 but threats of the big bad wolf when the wolf rarely uses its teeth are not likely to change anyone's use of the frequency but thanks for the reminder.
 
Aeronautical Information Manual Chapter 4

TBL 4−1−3
Other Frequency Usage Designated by FCC Use Frequency

Air-to-air communication
(private fixed wing aircraft).
122.750

Air-to-air communications
(general aviation helicopters).
123.025

Aviation instruction, Glider, Hot Air
Balloon (not to be used for
advisory service).
123.300
123.500

Also:

(c) Aircraft not landing or departing the
primary airport may obtain an ATC clearance to
transit the Class B airspace when traffic conditions
permit and provided the requirements of 14 CFR
Section 91.131 are met. Such VFR aircraft are
encouraged, to the extent possible, to operate at
altitudes above or below the Class B airspace or
transit through established VFR corridors. Pilots
operating in VFR corridors are urged to use frequency
122.750 MHz for the exchange of aircraft position
information.
 
...Can't remember ever using 123.45 but threats of the big bad wolf when the wolf rarely uses its teeth are not likely to change anyone's use of the frequency but thanks for the reminder.
Perhaps not, but the impact on legitimate users demolishes the myth that illicit use of the frequency doesn't do any harm.
 
So it is OK to bust a federal regulation if you don't thing you are going to get caught? What in the hell happened to honor in this profession? It is one thing to see that amateurs are shining the rules on and another to see that professionals are abusing the process.

Or are you absenting yourself from aviation professionalism?

Jim

Who are the “professionals” that you hear violating this rule?
 
I almost came to blows with regard to this with one of our type club members when we were coordinating a group flyout over Yellowstone. I convinced the group lead that he really needed to be doing this on 122.75 rather than fingers before takeoff.
 
122.75 getting popular in the north east.
 
I usually tune it in on longer trips. Not much activity in the mid atlantic. At most one other pair of pilots if that. I had a nice conversation with a pilot for the Ohio state police one year. They patrol the interstates looking for breakdowns and accidents.
 
I almost came to blows with regard to this with one of our type club members when we were coordinating a group flyout over Yellowstone. I convinced the group lead that he really needed to be doing this on 122.75 rather than fingers before takeoff.

Came to blows over 23.45??

Really?

If I had two f’ to give, I snapped one in half, I would not give half a f’

Let alone get that worked up over it.
 
Came to blows over 23.45??

Really?

If I had two f’ to give, I snapped one in half, I would not give half a f’

Let alone get that worked up over it.

See? Right there's the problem. No one gives a F any more.
 
Cant say if it’s still in use these days, but 123.45 “BEACH BALL” was used on the north and south shores of Long Island for over 25 years by GA pilots. Never heard a peep out of Grumman in Peconick or the FCC for that matter.
 
OK...air-to-air is 122.75. What if I want to communicate from a handheld (on the ground) to my wife in an airplane? Just curious...thanks!

Jim

...and what do I call myself if I'm not in an airplane? :)
 
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Cant say if it’s still in use these days, but 123.45 “BEACH BALL” was used on the north and south shores of Long Island for over 25 years by GA pilots. Never heard a peep out of Grumman in Peconick or the FCC for that matter.
That's amazing, I have the same combination on my luggage.
 
OK...air-to-air is 122.75. What if I want to communicate from a handheld (on the ground) to my wife in an airplane? Just curious...thanks! Get a radio operator's license.

Jim

...and what do I call myself if I'm not in an airplane? A pedestrian? Or, if you're using that handheld, you can call yourself an outlaw.
 
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