100LL Contamination..

DecathlonRich

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Skaneateles, NY
Posts: 318

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100LL Contamination
I just got back from TX yesterday to find that 100LL in our area is scarce due to an apparent contamination issue afflicting a single distributor nationwide. I heard nothing about it in TX or anywhere else but, apparently, several airports locally including SYR are not selling 100LL and have their inventory quarantined.
 
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Re: 100LL Contamination
Yep, there is something going on. I've heard of a couple of issues all Texas and points east. FBO's are very tight lipped saying only that they are out of fuel.This guy had more info than most on another forum.

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Re: 100LL Fuel Issue
There have been some issues in Kansas City, too. I heard metal contamination. As of last Saturday, our local Phillips 66 terminal (where Avgas is usually delivered from) was shut down temporarily to deal with a "quality control" issue. Local airport had to order fuel from an out-of-town supplier.
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09-14-2017, 10:45 AM #7
ionel

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,122

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Re: 100LL Contamination
Quote:
Originally Posted by fholbert
Yep, there is something going on. I've heard of a couple of issues all Texas and points east. FBO's are very tight lipped saying only that they are out of fuel.This guy had more info than most on another forum.
Which FBOs? Be good to know, I've got a flight east & back this weekend, could carry enough extra if thought would be an issue.


Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,122
 
Anybody ever actually find contaminated fuel? I always sump mine first flight of the day and after any fuel gets added, have yet to see a problem.

Is it fairly obvious normally? Using a GATS jar now. I'm gonna be on high alert for this flying down to New Orleans next week.
 
cowman said:
Anybody ever actually find contaminated fuel? I always sump mine first flight of the day and after any fuel gets added, have yet to see a problem.

Is it fairly obvious normally? Using a GATS jar now. I'm gonna be on high alert for this flying down to New Orleans next week.
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I've found some small debris before but other than that, nothing.

Might've not even been in the fuel, could've been something in the tank.
 
cowman said:
Anybody ever actually find contaminated fuel? I always sump mine first flight of the day and after any fuel gets added, have yet to see a problem.

Is it fairly obvious normally? Using a GATS jar now. I'm gonna be on high alert for this flying down to New Orleans next week.
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If everyone along the supply chain is doing their job, you will never get any bad fuel. The average pilot will never see anything worse than some water that entered their tank through a bad seal on their fuel cap. The fact that this issue appears to be fairly widespread is indicative of a QC measure working.
 
Had contamination once. About 15 min later started having cylinders shutting off. Few minutes later whole thing got quiet. After uneventful engine out landing and some investigating found that fine sand had plugged my injectors.
 
Used to work in the pipeline/terminal industry...

If this spreads from Texas up to KC area and someone said SYR too seems more like a problem at the refinery source than any pipeline route. Probably the worst case scenario as it can spread like wild then as opposed to just along a pipeline corridor.

How many refineries are we down to now for 100LL refining? Just a couple IIRC?
 
It's the Russians. Or China. Or N. Korea. Iran maybe, I dunno. ;)
 
Heard nothing out here about contaminated fuel. Just pumped 40gal into the Pawnee this weekend.
 
"Doc" was at KIXD last weekend. Almost didn't get off the field due to contamination. The only 100LL avail was a self-serve tank at NCAS, so they had to tow a B-29 to the self-serve pump. Funny picture...
 
We were told of at least one refinery that was having issues and to inspect our various filters and vessels if we had received a shipment from that refinery (we had not). Since we were safe I don't know anything further, but this is all the more reason why one should be very careful about choosing where they fuel. Do you want BillyBob's fuel island where the fuel has been sitting for awhile and has only passed through 3 filters, or do you want BusyFuelPlace where the fuel is likely sold in higher quantity, goes through more filters (fuel trucks add additional filters vs self service) and people generally doing more inspections and maintenance?
 
Z06_Mir said:
We were told of at least one refinery that was having issues and to inspect our various filters and vessels if we had received a shipment from that refinery (we had not). Since we were safe I don't know anything further, but this is all the more reason why one should be very careful about choosing where they fuel. Do you want BillyBob's fuel island where the fuel has been sitting for awhile and has only passed through 3 filters, or do you want BusyFuelPlace where the fuel is likely sold in higher quantity, goes through more filters (fuel trucks add additional filters vs self service) and people generally doing more inspections and maintenance?
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word I heard was it was discovered down at SDL Sig. Sig isn't pumping LL but Ross is, same supplier.
 
Z06_Mir said:
We were told of at least one refinery that was having issues and to inspect our various filters and vessels if we had received a shipment from that refinery (we had not). Since we were safe I don't know anything further, but this is all the more reason why one should be very careful about choosing where they fuel. Do you want BillyBob's fuel island where the fuel has been sitting for awhile and has only passed through 3 filters, or do you want BusyFuelPlace where the fuel is likely sold in higher quantity, goes through more filters (fuel trucks add additional filters vs self service) and people generally doing more inspections and maintenance?
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I like BillyBob's fuel 'cause he'll throw in a six-pack and doesn't mind if I have to take a leak.
 
Signature at KRDU is out of fuel until Wed but TAC Air has fuel. I do not know if it's the same issue.
 
Here's a pretty hilarious speculation from over on Red:

Lon Stratton;1941402 said:
Flew to Asheville (KAVL) and Cincinnati Lunken (KLUK) last weekend. Both had no 100LL. They refused to answer any questions about why. I figured it was something like this.

My first brief thought was retaliation for AOPA going after them for predatory pricing. Just a passing thought.....
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NJP_MAN said:
word I heard was it was discovered down at SDL Sig. Sig isn't pumping LL but Ross is, same supplier.
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yikes. I wonder how much fuel in the valley is contaminated then. Maybe signature has a policy that doesn't allow them to sell regardless of actual contamination?? I was in Ross yesterday but didn't hear any rumblings, not that I was listening though. I would think most airports, if not all, in Phoenix would get fuel from the same refinery even though they're all waiving different flags. Or signature ran out of av and didn't get it ordered before the hurricane ...... I know they don't keep much extra on hand.
 
.

labbadabba said:
"Doc" was at KIXD last weekend. Almost didn't get off the field due to contamination. The only 100LL avail was a self-serve tank at NCAS, so they had to tow a B-29 to the self-serve pump. Funny picture...
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.

When you have $3M + hanging on the wings, fuel contamination has to be a damn serious issue. Wow.
 
Speaking of SYR... I called Signature there on Friday to ask about 100LL, ramp fees etc. The one who answered their phone said that there were issues with 100LL, so they wouldn't be able to sell me any. When I arrived there a few hours later, however, they told me they had been given the go ahead to sell 100LL again.
 
Maybe a noob question, but what's the issue with ethanol in planes? I specifically run it in my car because it provides more power/reduces knock at higher timing advance. I would assume it could provide a similar safety margin. Yes, I know it has ~30% less energy than gasoline, but around here, E85-E90 is about ~30% cheaper.
 
ripnet said:
Maybe a noob question, but what's the issue with ethanol in planes? I specifically run it in my car because it provides more power/reduces knock at higher timing advance. I would assume it could provide a similar safety margin. Yes, I know it has ~30% less energy than gasoline, but around here, E85-E90 is about ~30% cheaper.
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One, not all seals / hoses / metals / etc. are compatible with it. There is concern around it holding water in contact with aluminum tanks, for example, and causing corrosion. Seals in the mechanical fuel pump are mentioned sometimes as well, as are hoses.

Another concern associated with ethanol's ability to absorb water is what happens when you go high enough such that the OAT drops below freezing. The water will freeze out into crystals, which can then plug filters/pumps/etc. Smaller chances of this happening, but the consequences are pretty serious if it does.

I built my RV so I can run ethanol-laced fuels. I did that as a fallback should it be absolutely neccesary at some point, but until it is, I avoid the stuff like the plague (but do run mogas almost exclusively).
 
As mentioned, Kansas City area had issues with it but it seems like things are alright for the time being. I have enough fuel to get me out of here anyway. Need to double check for my flight this weekend...
 
ChiefPilot said:
One, not all seals / hoses / metals / etc. are compatible with it. There is concern around it holding water in contact with aluminum tanks, for example, and causing corrosion.
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Not to mention those with wet wings, the sealant wasn't designed for ethanol fuel.
 
My hangar mate's C-140 swelled its gascolator-to-carb fuel line nearly shut on several weeks of fuel purchased from an FBO as certified alcohol-free MoGas. This was not gas station stuff, it was all FBO-purchased MoGas. He had a seat-puckering engine starvation on takeoff over Lake Superior. The FBO didn't know how to test his fuel tanks for ethanol (the small amount of water in a test tube method).

When I checked his remaining fuel, it was about 5% alcohol. I called the FBO, who maintained that it was sold to him as a certified alcohol-free load but he agreed that it was somehow contaminated with alcohol anyway when he repeated the test.

Check your fuel sources. Being certified doesn't necessarily mean aircraft quality. It was interesting that the credit card companies wouldn't allow the FBO to notify other purchasers of the potential contamination.
 
mikea said:
How do you find ethanol free mogas in corn country?
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Around here (ND), if you buy premium, it's ethanol free. I just got gas today...30 cent difference per gallon.
 
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