Search results

Sorry, sir, really not trying to come off argumentative here but the data you are putting in front of me proves my point instead of yours. Your boat example of 9-10k per year and my example is 26k per year, even if you take out my 4k of upgrades, you still get well over twice the expense. And...

There's about 130,000 piston singles in the USA. According to AOPA, the average age of that fleet is 35 years (edit: those numbers were very old. The actual average age is actually 50 atm!!). Id suggest to you that the vast majority of these people would prefer to be flying a new airplane...

I've averaged $8k in both repairs + upgrades per year on my airplanes over 7 years of ownership now. Some upgrades were discretionary (adding G5's or an autopilot), others where close to mandatory (ADS-B, or an engine monitor instead of replacing gauges from Textron that cost $1k each). The...

@Doc Holliday I'm not really sure what you are arguing here. We all know the business is low volume, and that this fact is the cause of pretty much all the woes in GA. What we are trying to figure out is "why". The cost of new aircraft is a strong contributor. Further, If piper can produce a...

Its called "failing business", and that's why we are where we are.

If Piper can build a PA-28 for $285k, why should Cessna's 182 be over TWICE that cost? The only meaningful difference in equipment is the CS prop.

Right, and by extrapolation, there's nothing that should cause a new 182 to go for something like 600k. It's just not that much 'more' airplane than this iteration of the PA-28. Textron should be ashamed of themselves.

Been thinking a lot about this in the past day due to this thread. You know what I've concluded? None of us really want or need 'new' technology. What we want is an airplane just like the one we bought in 1970, but with upgraded avionics (arguably the cheapest part). And we want it for a...

Yeah, that's the problem. EAB is a small slice of an already low-volume market. Engines are super complex machines with huge development costs. Sure Lycoming can (and does) do models targeted only at experimentals, but they aren't clean sheet designs. The cost of that would be prohibitive...

I know you are right, and I can't understand it. You put your friends and family in this thing.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I bet you the average amount that the average owner pumps into their older 172 is right about in that range. If they are not, they are either extremely lucky, or just letting the airplane slip.

Lets talk about those batteries as a canonical example. Say you've got a boat with a lead acid battery, and you need to replace it every 3 or 4 years. That battery costs something like $200. The airplane equivalent of that battery also needs replacing every 3 or 4 years. It costs $600, so...

Once again though, you are talking about buy-in costs. That's the least expensive part of aviation in my experience. It is the ongoing maintenance, upkeep, storage, training, and then the big hits like overhaul. That stuff is all off the charts in aviation compared to boating. You are fully...

Good point, maintaining the pilot is also an expense unique to aviation.

I'm sorry guys, but I just don't think this is true. No spec Miata or 25' center console comes close to the amount of sheer capital investment you need to own an operate an airplane. Sure its true that a boat and a plane might have vaguely similar buy-in costs, but the ongoing cost of...

Yeah, but that seems like an approach that would work best on a twin. The extra weight and longer arm on a piston single retrofit would be problematic, I think. I'd love to see them evolve that engine with an aluminum casting.

Great work by Paul, as usual. Also as usual, the problems in GA all go back to low volume.

Epic. Edit: BTW, Leigh, you and I share so much aviation background. I too started in RC flying pattern in the late 80's and early 90's. My dad was as big an influence on me, hauling my butt to the AMA nats, building the latest and greatest pattern ship. I was just as obsessed with MSFS...

I've flown this airplane for a short demo flight way back in the mid 2000's. I recall liking it a lot.

Ballpark seems right. And that's not including a) upgrades, and b) potential wallet destroying ADs or Mx events. -G