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I asked an N90 controller directly. They want you back at SBJ. Shrug.

But this logic is ignoring the clear facts in front of you. You hand waved over the pilots vast time in type and the nature of the accident itself. Dives like that don’t happen unless there was either catastrophic structural damage or someone simply just pushed the stick and overrode the...

Mark, I completely agree with you. I dunno. This is what we are being told. This is what my CFII taught me when departing this airport on an IFR Clearance too for all the reasons I gave above.

There is no tower. That's the mistake you are making. The question is at 400AGL in IMC are you joining V30 or circling back to SBJ? Reason would say, join V30 and check in with departure. The answer as I was told by many pilots as well as an N90 controller himself, you are circling back to the...

Typically, they will tell you to join V30 or DIRECT LANNA. I typically get DIRECT LANNA and then handed off to KABE a few minutes later.

@midlifeflyer (Mark), if you file N51 - KABE (which is very popular because of DPEs), you will get in your clearance: SBJ V30 LANNA V30 ETX DCT Use GP or FF to verify. Majority of departures are going to 22 (read: westerlies). N90 will be expecting you to depart and make probably two left...

That's true. I guess I was thinking equal or greater than a half mile. I was John looking at the same Jepp plate.

No. You will always get SBJ.

Great question. When you find out that answer, let me know as well.

I'm living proof. Well, the upside here is thanks to all of you, I did learn a few things (more about myself than anything related to flying).

Do what you want. But I know what N90 wants when you depart N51. Like i said, this has been directly asked by many local pilots to New York Approach. And the answer is quiet clear: Go back to SBJ VOR after departure.

That is exactly what it means. LRP is unfortunately the closest fix on that Victor from where i am located. Frankly, BOYER is far clearer to me for /G as an initial fix. My goal is quite clear then. But as @midlifeflyer astutely pointed out, that doesn't help /A or /U. I get it but still...

Correct. Most of the folks on this thread would probably just join V30 via R-274 off of SBJ if they were headed West. And you would be wrong to do so. Many pilots (including myself) have had discussions with N90 and they do expect you to do a 180 if need be depending on traffic requirements...

I think it would have been a bit more precise if tower said turn left join V39 but I understand now my misunderstanding.

I got AF. That's it.

Learn to read. I didn't do that. I just asked and joined V39.

Ok, but I filed /G. I guess I just over thought it. BOYER would have clearer to me at least. Well, now I know.

EDIT: Oh, i see what you are referring too. Ok, maybe. Left is kinda vague but OK.

And that is what has me confused now. I agree joining V39 is obvious and easy. But I didn't get any instructions to do so.