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Thanks for those @Mongoose Aviator - those are interesting. The second interpretation doesn’t directly apply to the sliver of airspace I’m looking at but does provide some context to help understand the thinking. Helpful links :)

You’re saying that we are not allowed to fly below the shelf with no ADS-B or Mode C (in aircraft certified with no electrical). I disagree. Very much not trying to get into an argument. But I do think there are some important distinctions. Just pilots spitballing around the campfire. And I...

I understand the Mode C veil. This is specific to exceptions when flying old aircraft certified with no electrical and therefore some allowances to fly inside the veil with no Mode C or ADS-B.

Fair question. I’d argue that there is a distinct difference between the two wordings. But Tomayto / Tomahto … The FAA uses two different wordings with respect to airspace restrictions in this context: - “All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries” - “Below...

Yeah that’s good advice. I do plan to call them prior to passing through or close to the area. Might also put in a call to the OAK FSDO on this one. Can’t hurt and maybe they’ll shed light or point out anything I’m misinterpreting.

Sort of. :) (and thanks for being willing to engage on this even though it’s likely headache inducing for some). Your re-write gets to part of the issue but doesn’t really fix the ambiguity (and might also imply no flight allowed under the shelf). The reg already reads that Mode C and ADS-B are...

Yeah, so this reg effectively adds an altitude barrier for non-electrical aircraft out beyond the lateral limits of the B or C airspace - out to 30nm. That’s the belief I’ve been operating under. But… This gets a little weirder in the case you’re showing - Class Charlie airspace. Since the...

There is a difference between “below the ceiling” and “below the altitude of the ceiling”. Your way reads it as not being allowed under the shelf. And I agree that makes intuitive sense. But that’s not what “below the altitude of the ceiling” means. THAT would mean that (for example) anything...

It does actually. Just by way of referring to the 30nm limitation. Specifically this section has always been tough to interpret: (2) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower. the reg already states...

Question is specific to 91.215(b)3(ii) and 91.225(e)2 - 2 questions really. It’s a reg that is fairly limited in scope and unlikely to affect most operations. As I read it with respect to Class B operations for aircraft originally certified with no electrical (and therefore no ADS-B) it says...

Nice. Thanks for the reviews. I’ll take the A20s.

I’ve had varying experiences with noise cancelling headsets in open or windy cockpits at points in the past. ANR can struggle (or completely fail) to keep up with buffeting wind or rapid power changes in aerobatic situations or with open doors. Often I’ve found going with good old David Clarks...

Good lord. I'm gonna go fly.

Like most internet discussions at some point, there's a semantic argument going on here that is both ridiculous and apropos. Complexity > complicated > "consisting of many interconnecting parts" or > intricate > detailed Saying the FARs are not complex or complicated is like saying an internal...

Yes, you are correct.

Precisely what the OP was about. Logging. The OP incorrectly uses "APIC as a safety pilot" when it shouldn't have. Should have only referred to safety pilot. That's been clarified above.

Jeezus. Ok cool. No complexity. Find your own adjective I guess? There are some folks out there who have had a different understanding, or an incomplete understanding, or are confused. Who knows? I don't really care. I had at least two conflicting opinions on various parts of the topic. That's...

Yes, I am aware. This is exclusively about some complexity that gets introduced when it comes to acting as a safety pilot and when it can be logged. Carry on.

Right - I see the SIC distinction. Yes, A(cting)PIC was an acronym used in this link up-thread: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/the-definitive-pic-thread.90574/

Thanks, I think that reply clarifies things for me. The distinction that you make (from what I stated above) is that a non-endorsed pilot cannot be the APIC (although they can still be the safety pilot under Category and Class rules). Which makes it a moot point - they could not be designated as...