Getting over Winter Turbulence

Vihurah

Vihurah

Filing Flight Plan
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Alex
So as wrong as the mindset is, i must confess i feel like a bit of a sissy after flying around as of late. Im a CFI (new but still) and 360-ish hours and idk, personal minimums but i feel like i should be past this.

Winter brings some hefty winds and gusting, but living right next to the Appalachians seems to make the whole DMV area one big soup of light-moderate turbulence. Strangely I've never been particularly bad with it in the summer months, even when it was kicking me up and down like 200 feet, but i don't know guys, something about this winter turbulence feels worse.

i think its because im flying my 150 now? light little plane, low as hell wing loading, and a big engine up front causing this thing to buck around but ive had some jolts that scared the abs. crap out of me and am getting real tired of watching the ball whizz back and forth. any tips on getting over this, or just exposure therapy until i stop caring?
 
MauleSkinner said:
For starters, don’t watch the ball. If you’re making corrections based on that, you’re probably making it worse.
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you're right, its just when i feel the nose go shooting out to a side, i guess i just started coping by watching the indicator at some point down the line
 
it's been pretty bumpy af east of the appalachians this winter.
 
In my experience, a C150 is an easy ride compared to an LSA. In reality my Bushcat is a merely a motorized leaf. But still, I was out Sunday doing T&Gs in 10-15 G20 of direct crosswinds. I shot 14, bucking & squirming all the way down…and I loved it (sorta). A couple of times, the crab angle was 30° or more off the runway centerline. To make it even more challenging, VG37, Greenway Airfield, is a narrow N-S strip lined on either side by towering pines, so even on a good day flying any airplane is like being a marble in a funnel. But when the wind is from the west & boiling over the trees, like it was Sunday, the experience is…sporting.

Why do I do it? To increase my tolerances & experience for when I’m caught out inadvertently & don’t have a choice but to “do it.” To learn to trust that the plane—and I—can take it & we can fight through together.

Last night, I slept the sleep of the just. I earned it. “Fortune favors the prepared mind” Louis Pasteur

Good luck. Ride um’ cowboy.
 
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Take a step back. Do you feel unsafe or just uncomfortable?

What are the fundamentals of aircraft control applicable to your scenarios? Aside from your subjective feelings, do you have objective data to support it?

Have you considered using a tool like CloudAhoy to replay these flights?
 
TCABM said:
Take a step back. Do you feel unsafe or just uncomfortable?

What are the fundamentals of aircraft control applicable to your scenarios? Aside from your subjective feelings, do you have objective data to support it?

Have you considered using a tool like CloudAhoy to replay these flights?
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There have been a few moments I've felt genuinely unsafe yes, but that was a 30+ gusting day with windshear, and that was obvious. Truthfully it might be that flight that's rattled me.
As far as tools, I record on gopros sometimes and watch it back, never shows me half the severity it feels.
But the fear isn't rational, that's the whole reason this bugs me. I try to be a rational guy
 
Vihurah said:
There have been a few moments I've felt genuinely unsafe yes, but that was a 30+ gusting day with windshear, and that was obvious. Truthfully it might be that flight that's rattled me.
As far as tools, I record on gopros sometimes and watch it back, never shows me half the severity it feels.
But the fear isn't rational, that's the whole reason this bugs me. I try to be a rational guy
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Turn off stabilization in the camera.
 
Vihurah said:
So as wrong as the mindset is, i must confess i feel like a bit of a sissy after flying around as of late. Im a CFI (new but still) and 360-ish hours and idk, personal minimums but i feel like i should be past this.

Winter brings some hefty winds and gusting, but living right next to the Appalachians seems to make the whole DMV area one big soup of light-moderate turbulence. Strangely I've never been particularly bad with it in the summer months, even when it was kicking me up and down like 200 feet, but i don't know guys, something about this winter turbulence feels worse.

i think its because im flying my 150 now? light little plane, low as hell wing loading, and a big engine up front causing this thing to buck around but ive had some jolts that scared the abs. crap out of me and am getting real tired of watching the ball whizz back and forth. any tips on getting over this, or just exposure therapy until i stop caring?
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Like said, just keep flying.
360 hours is not much.
Reminds me of when I started my instrument training with a CFII with less hours than I had. It didn't work out so well and I finished at a different school with a 70 year old X airline Captain. Wow what a difference for the good that was.

Keep flying, you need more hours...
 
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Vihurah said:
So as wrong as the mindset is, i must confess i feel like a bit of a sissy after flying around as of late. Im a CFI (new but still) and 360-ish hours and idk, personal minimums but i feel like i should be past this.

Winter brings some hefty winds and gusting, but living right next to the Appalachians seems to make the whole DMV area one big soup of light-moderate turbulence.

i think its because im flying my 150 now? light little plane, low as hell wing loading, and a big engine up front
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It's not just you, it's been bumpy lately. I agree with the 150 being a light little plane with low wing loading but it's underpowered. Get in the mountains and that brings danger. So, your right to be concerned. Also agree with @rhkennerly in some planes being worse. I describe the RV-9a we had as kite-like in gusty winds.

Bottom line as I see it is to use the right tool for the job. A C-150 is great in calm winds over relatively flat ground as a primary trainer. Our Lancair is much harder to learn to fly, but once proficiency is obtained it is much easier to manage in gusty turbulent wind.
 
at least you know about wing loading. . obviously the heavier the plane, the higher the wing loading - the more stable it will be. But as others have said - its what you are used to. After flying in twins for several years - its eye opening to go back to a 172 (much less 152) and fly around.
 
FORANE said:
Bottom line as I see it is to use the right tool for the job. A C-150 is great in calm winds over relatively flat ground as a primary trainer. Our Lancair is much harder to learn to fly, but once proficiency is obtained it is much easier to manage in gusty turbulent wind.
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That’s the rub, though, isn’t it? At 360 hrs he needs to build time & experience. I’m flying the Rotax at 3.5 per hour to fly as much as I can without breaking the bank (83 hours in 2024). I imagine he’s in the same boat. I know that I fly a lot more now at a far lower cost than with the six-banger in the 182. I think the same is true for you back in your RV9 days.

Winter is just tough here in a light airplane.

A lot of my hanger mates hang it up for the winter, and think I’m crazy for going out when it’s washboard rough. But they also only fly in the calm, thermal-less golden hours during the summer.
 
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I definitely agree that the NoVA region has been bumpy lately, and I hear you on the annoying irrational fear.

After returning to flying following a very long break, I found myself with a strange anxiety about aircraft structural integrity. No rational reason (although the Piper spar ADs certainly didn't help), but it made me nervous in turbulent air. The turbulence itself was fine, because I viewed it as being analogous to a small boat on the ocean and I knew I could fly out of almost any attitude without a problem. But I had this weird fear that this gusty turbulence would somehow fold a wing or depart the empennage, and I'd be in a situation that no amount of pilot skill could get me out of.

This was partly solved by reading up on the engineering that when into designing aircraft, which appealed to my rational mind. Mostly though, it was helped by my coast-to-coast flight, during which I encountered some pretty significant turbulence, including 1000fpm up and down drafts and a lot of mechanical turbulence from mountainous terrain. That, coupled with some 50kt windshear and some of the worst turbulence I'd ever experienced on an approach to KLOZ (killer wind over a bunch of hills), convinced me that if anything was going to snap off my plane, it would have already happened. Not entirely rational, but comforting. The other comforting mental change I made was convincing myself that turbulence was an air mass hitting the entire aircraft, not just the wings or empennage, so the stress was distributed throughout the fuselage. That helped with the irrational worry about wings folding during a huge updraft.

So yeah, that's a lot of words to say that you're not alone in having irrational fears that you just have to fly through. Getting the daylights beaten out of me by turbulence fixed my concerns. Perhaps just more exposure is what you need too. Love the comment above about "uncomfortable vs unsafe". As long as you're just uncomfortable, you can get to where you need to be.
 
Go up with a more experienced CFI during some crazy days. Nothing that says a CFI can’t get more training, even if that “training” is banging out T&Gs in uncomfortable situations.

I had a 3000 hr CFI who is my favorite. He wasn’t available one day that I wanted to practice T&Gs in shifting and gusting winds. So I picked a CFI out of the pool of lower hour CFIs. After ATIS, we taxied, did the run up, and we were holding short; the winds had shifted 90 degrees. We ended up requesting the other crossing runway. Winds had shifted back. As PIC I was uncomfortable and the CFI quickly said we can scrub. It was the right decision with the 2 of us. When my original CFI found out we cancelled, he said we would have launched if he was with me.

Go fly with an old crusty guy (or gal). He/she will test and push your limits, while obeying theirs and the plane’s.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Go up with a more experienced CFI during some crazy days. Nothing that says a CFI can’t get more training, even if that “training” is banging out T&Gs in uncomfortable situations.

I had a 3000 hr CFI who is my favorite. He wasn’t available one day that I wanted to practice T&Gs in shifting and gusting winds. So I picked a CFI out of the pool of lower hour CFIs. After ATIS, we taxied, did the run up, and we were holding short; the winds had shifted 90 degrees. We ended up requesting the other crossing runway. Winds had shifted back. As PIC I was uncomfortable and the CFI quickly said we can scrub. It was the right decision with the 2 of us. When my original CFI found out we cancelled, he said we would have launched if he was with me.

Go fly with an old crusty guy (or gal). He/she will test and push your limits, while obeying theirs and the plane’s.
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I fly with a 26000 hour Captain and standards check airmen.
Very lucky to fly with him in my 172 and in his arrow.
We have picked a couple real windy gusty days to practice in my 172 which helped me a lot.
Did nothing but T&G all the while he was laughing at the wind and turbulence. I was at almost full rudder a couple landings. Burned up some landing gear rubber. Helped to know how much control you have. I lived to tell you about it! lol
 
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FORANE said:
It's not just you, it's been bumpy lately. I agree with the 150 being a light little plane with low wing loading but it's underpowered.
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This one isn't actually underpowered, it's got the 320 up front. But to be honest that just kind of adds to the headache sometimes
 
rhkennerly said:
That’s the rub, though, isn’t it? At 360 hrs he needs to build time & experience. I’m flying the Rotax at 3.5 per hour to fly as much as I can without breaking the bank (83 hours in 2024). I imagine he’s in the same boat. I know that I fly a lot more now at a far lower cost than with the six-banger in the 182. I think the same is true for you back in your RV9 days.

Winter is just tough here in a light airplane.

A lot of my hanger mates hang it up for the winter, and think I’m crazy for going out when it’s washboard rough. But they also only fly in the calm, thermal-less golden hours during the summer.
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its worse because i own the plane, so its also an economic requirement that i fly her more than i do a schools just to break even on training and rental costs. shes one of a kind but if i could go back id have probably gotten a 4 seater
 
How many hours in type do you have? It's been unusually breezy and cold so far this winter. Judging by the number of go-arounds I saw on Saturday, the wind was definitely giving the flight school nuggets a workout. I was out in my 140 and got bumped around a bit, but not too badly.

By the way, apparently there's a new restaurant at Cambridge.
 
The older I get the less I like the rough & tumble. Here's a video with an old instructor giving some advice for flying in turbulence (gets good ~3:00) ...


"Just keep your seat belt nice & tight or you'll get a headache"
 
Vihurah said:
This one isn't actually underpowered, it's got the 320 up front. But to be honest that just kind of adds to the headache sometimes
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I would fly the airplane with extra weight in it. Make sure the fuel tanks are full and get a couple of 5 gallon buckets and fill them up with gravel. Check your weight and balance, but I would put two 5 gallon buckets on the floor in front of the copilot seat, and strap them in place. That adds about 100 lb down low on the airframe and it will stabilize the plane right much. Make sure when you're in the plane it is properly loaded near gross weight and well inside the flight envelope. You might be surprised how much difference it makes. Your O-320 should be a pretty good powerhouse in cold weather, but it will be a dog in the summertime.
 
GeorgeC said:
How many hours in type do you have? It's been unusually breezy and cold so far this winter. Judging by the number of go-arounds I saw on Saturday, the wind was definitely giving the flight school nuggets a workout. I was out in my 140 and got bumped around a bit, but not too badly.

By the way, apparently there's a new restaurant at Cambridge.
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oh it opened? last time i was there in july they were still renovating. might have to stop in when it gets a little less chilly
 
Relocate to Florida with the rest of the snowbirds. Flying WX this time of year is bliss.
 
So I have a funny story for you. I was young and green and started taking flying lessons when I was 19 in 1978. I still hadn't soloed yet and was taking lessons once every weekend as long as the weather was good. So I showed up to fly and it was way too windy. My flight instructor was off for the day and the flight school owner gave me a choice to fly with him if I wanted, but I couldn't log any time because it was definitely too rough to fly a student with as little experience as me.... But I could fly as a passenger... in the left seat... while operating the controls... for the actual PIC in the right seat... so long as I did exactly what he said WHEN he said to do it! I'm game! Let's go!!

It was cold, and windy, and gusty. We got the C150 warmed up and ready to go, and here are the takeoff instructions : "You have been taught accelerate to Vr 55 MPH and then apply gentle back pressure and the airplane will takeoff by itself. Don't do thatt!! Today with this wind we are going to hold it on the ground with some downforce to Vr+5 or so MPH, then pull quickly back and POP off the runway, THEN the wind will blow the airplane sideways so crab hard into the wind with right rudder and maintain the centerline (out the SIDE window) simultanously push down on the yoke to prevent stalling out of ground effect, and basically dive at the runway. As you dive you'll pickup speed and the airplane will climb away from the runway and you not hit the runway no matter how hard you dive at it!" Then he says "Now show me what you've got!!"

So here is the green 19yo kid, Power, downforce, 60+ MPH, pull, POP, CRAB, SIDE WINDOW, PUSH, DIVE... And climb away as pretty as you please! We were both howling and hooting and hollering!! I never had so much FUN in my LIFE!! When we landed I was leaned into the wind so far I thought the wingtip l would touch before the wheel did, but that didn't happen. We stayed the the pattern and did a few more. I learned a ton and had a ball. To this day that was my favorite flying lesson EVER.

I still remember some of the lessons I learned that day, and still use them.
 
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