Snow or ice landing

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4RNB

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4RNB
I expect to pick my plane up today and fly home. Home airport 2.5 hrs away got some snow overnight, 2 hr pre approval needed at present. At noon it might be 27f, high 30. I see on cam that they have plowed. I’ve never landed on wet icy or snowy conditions. I expect my plan would be to land slow, stable/straight, not be crabbing until the last minute. Minimal gentle bilateral braking. Take turns slowly. Runways used commercially, re paved within past two years.

Am I missing anything?
 
Read the notam.

Other then almost blowing past the hold short due to skidding on ice I have never felt much difference in landing or take off with 10-20% ice on runway. Although our field is decently maintained.
 
If it is forecast to be sunny all morning, there's an extremely good chance that the runway is not going to have any snow or ice left on it as the sun will heat it up enough to melt the snow/ice. That said, assuming there's less than 30% coverage, your plan should be fine if there isn't a stiff crosswind. Just take it super slow around any turns and be gentle on the brakes. You may want to make a combined short and soft landing so it is very easy to get slowed down after touchdown.

I've never flown above 30% coverage, because the runway usually went from 30% to 90%, but people land on 100% obscured runways in Alaska so maybe someone who is more experienced with winter flying will be along to tell you I've got it all wrong. ;)
 
SkyChaser said:
If it is forecast to be sunny all morning, there's an extremely good chance that the runway is not going to have any snow or ice left on it as the sun will heat it up enough to melt the snow/ice. That said, assuming there's less than 30% coverage, your plan should be fine if there isn't a stiff crosswind. Just take it super slow around any turns and be gentle on the brakes. You may want to make a combined short and soft landing so it is very easy to get slowed down after touchdown.

I've never flown above 30% coverage, because the runway usually went from 30% to 90%, but people land on 100% obscured runways in Alaska so maybe someone who is more experienced with winter flying will be along to tell you I've got it all wrong. ;)
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You write as if you know where I will be landing?
 
Fun fact: Ice will sublimate off blacktop making it look like the runway is clear, but painted markings can still have ice.

Snow snot a big deal unless it is deep or there are drifts.

Ice - rudder is your friend.

Youtube has lots of videos of people landing on ice runways (Alton Bay comes to mind). Most do just fine.
 
4RNB said:
You write as if you know where I will be landing?
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No, I just used to fly in the winter in N Iowa where it got snowy and icy for about 6 months of the year and lived in MN so I'm very familiar with how and when things will or will not melt and what things you might need to do to mitigate effects of ice and snow. It might be fun to be psychic, though! :biggrin:
 
On ice or snow your rudder is your best friend. Learn to love it.
Your brakes can be your worst enemy. Just coast to a stop.
 
I have been on a icy runway or two. Just plan ahead. 30% coverage on a sunny day will probably be more wet than icy. Couple inches of snow not a problem. No need to change landing procedures, keep normal speeds, normal braking. If you feel a wheel lock up just take your foot off that brake for a second. As mentioned before avoid drifts higher than a few inches. Look for the non icy spots.

I have landed on 100% ice covered runways where the crosswind demanded landing in a crab. No big deal, I just used rudder and throttle to stay on the center line, which was covered up. On the twin differential power between engines and rudder kept me straight.

For taxiing just plan ahead, test the brakes every now and then to see how slippery it is, or isn't, plan to stop without brakes.

At those temps with any sunshine I would almost bet on just a wet runway. Don't overthink, just plan ahead.

If still worried call ahead and get runway conditions.
 
Shepherd said:
On ice or snow your rudder is your best friend. Learn to love it.
Your brakes can be your worst enemy. Just coast to a stop.
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Thought for you. Your car/truck has anti lock brakes, and we all drive with the muscle memory of just tapping brakes and not locking the wheels. We have forgotten the "ancient days" of pre anti lock brakes where we didn't do that. We tapped lightly and released.

Maybe have the mindset that it is a "soft field landing". "Just Cost to a stop" posted by Shepherd seems like great advice.
 
WDD said:
Thought for you. Your car/truck has anti lock brakes, and we all drive with the muscle memory of just tapping brakes and not locking the wheels. We have forgotten the "ancient days" of pre anti lock brakes where we didn't do that. We tapped lightly and released.

Maybe have the mindset that it is a "soft field landing". "Just Cost to a stop" posted by Shepherd seems like great advice.
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On solid ice it's OK to crab on the approach. Your wheels will be acting like casters anyway.
 
If you don’t need brakes don’t use them at all on the roll out

It’s easy to get cherries, you go from good traction to a small ice patch, the tire majorly slows rotation due to the slick ice, hit a dry patch and end up with those little quarter sized flat spots

Grooved runways tend to be a little better

And uncontrolled fields be wary of your clearance on where the plow guy piles the snow up

Remember they use sand, so avoid long static run ups else you can erode the paint on the prop, through this is mostly seen in turbo props going into beta on landing
 
As of Wednesday afternoon, it appears many LA/MS/AL/FL commercial airports are still shut down, but I have noticed a few intrepid aviators operating out of the GA airports that never close. I'm curious what their runway conditions are. Oddly many of them are RVs. One concern there is wheel pants, if they get stuffed full of snow they may keep the tires from spinning when you land.
 
midwestpa24 said:
many of them are RVs. One concern there is wheel pants, if they get stuffed full of snow they may keep the tires from spinning when you land.
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I had that happen with an old 172. I landed on a slushy runway at Dowagiac, Michigan, and when the airplane started to slide, I took off again. I did not realize the slush had frozen inside the wheel pants. Back at my home base, Kalamazoo, the runway was clear and dry. Right after landing there was BANG and I started heading for the left edge of the runway, and then BANG and it straightened out. I was sure the fiber glass wheel pants had been damaged, but no, they survived just fine.
 
If there’s snow? Like not plowed? Be careful. Use soft field technique. In snow you won’t need brakes but you may need to add power to manage the drag. Slow it to walking speed and give yourself additional room to turn and to stop. More so if it’s slick ice.
 
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