Delta ATP-CTP Class

jayhawk74 said:
I know of a guy who left the Military with only a Multi engine ATP. It was easier for him to add a Single engine ATP than get a CSEL in order to fly a single engine airplane professionally.
Click to expand...
Oh, it's easy enough to get, it's just utterly useless.

Max Trescott went so far as to get an ATP-ASES. :rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Oh, it's easy enough to get, it's just utterly useless.

Max Trescott went so far as to get an ATP-ASES. :rofl:
Click to expand...
The ATP SE, both land & sea, is not useless. If you don't have a Comm SE rating and you want to fly a Single Engine, land or sea, and get paid for it then getting the ATP SE is easier than getting a Commercial SE. As you said the ATP SE is easy enough to get, especially if you already have a Multi engine ATP.
 
jayhawk74 said:
The ATP SE, both land & sea, is not useless. If you don't have a Comm SE rating and you want to fly a Single Engine, land or sea, and get paid for it then getting the ATP SE is easier than getting a Commercial SE. As you said the ATP SE is easy enough to get, especially if you already have a Multi engine ATP.
Click to expand...
That falls under “easy enough to get”, but it’s still “useless”. There’s nothing you can do with an ATP ASE that you can’t do with a Commercial ASE.
 
mandm said:
Yeah we do A/T, manually increase throttles to N1 at 40 then press the TOGA buttons. Forgot what VNAV does, helps when you turn on the A/P or? I think we call out VNAV either at 400’ or 1000’, I forgot.
Click to expand...
On the line, we ARM the A/T, VNAV, and LNAV, if applicable to the clearance, when the takeoff data is loaded (uplink). That can happen as early as at the gate, if the loading has been closed out by ramp and customer service, and must happen before we do the Before Takeoff Checklist. Your picture showed you on the runway but the FMA was still blank. Obviously, reposition to that point is common in the sim.

TOGA does as you say, if the A/T is armed, and puts both pitch and roll into TOGA which will command the pitch for the initial climb on the F/D and command liftoff track on roll.

Roll mode will switch to HDG or LNAV, depending on the mode that is armed, no later than 400'. Some RNAV departures engage LNAV much earlier. See the Rwy 1 departure from DCA. LNAV engages immediately on liftoff to turn away from the prohibited area.

400' is the minimum autopilot engagement altitude per the Limitations section of the FM but it's really not a lot of help at that point. Easier to hand-fly the acceleration segment.

The acceleration schedule is programmed in the Takeoff 2/2 page and CLB page. That has your thrust reduction altitude, acceleration altitude, and engine-out acceleration altitude. VNAV will command a pitch attitude to accelerate to the the CLB page speed restriction while protecting the max flap speed for the current flap setting during clean up.

We set either an L1 or L2 climb, usually and L2 climb. That puts a 250kt limit on the CLIMB page L1 and clean maneuvering speed to 3,000' above the runway. That's an NADP2 departure profile. As flaps are retracted, VNAV will command a pitch for clean maneuvering until 3,000' above the runway then will command 250kts until we select, and execute, ECON CLIMB. In ECON CLB, VNAV will command a climb speed based on the CI (Cost Index) entered in the PERF/INIT page during setup. We use CI 10 as the default then increase from there if CI 10 puts us behind schedule.

You might find it interesting that we had a failed TOGA in October. I hit TOGA, several times, but it didn't take. It was my takeoff so I alerted the PM and emphasized for him to SET thrust. (Just like my 15 years flying DC8s and DC9s) After liftoff, the A/T modes operated normally. On the next takeoff, TOGA operated normally. Never did figure out why it didn't take.

My normal procedure to set takeoff thrust is to push up to 40%, N1 until the engines spool, push to 70% N1 to monitor normal acceleration, then push TOGA and follow the thrust levers as the A/T sets the scheduled T/O thrust. In this case, I pushed up toward takeoff thrust, when TOGA didn't engage, so that there wouldn't be a delay in achieving power and the PM would only have to fine tune it.
 
Larry in TN said:
Actually, I was making a joke about how loud the cockpit would be at 390kts.

And, protect Essential.
Click to expand...
I got the joke.

The 727 was my first jet. Never made it off the panel before the furlough. Then the place shut down. It was a short stay for me on the 727 but it was an awesome airplane. Getting experience on the panel has been very beneficial.
 
ok, how do ya'll feel about ATP multi for flying say for example a Piper Apache PA-23-150. Would that require one of these airline-based sim classes?
 
Brad W said:
ok, how do ya'll feel about ATP multi for flying say for example a Piper Apache PA-23-150. Would that require one of these airline-based sim classes?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean. CTP, which includes the overpriced sim hours, is a requirement to be eligible to take the ATP written, post rule-change back in the mid 2010s. It's not optional.
 
Brad W said:
ok, how do ya'll feel about ATP multi for flying say for example a Piper Apache PA-23-150. Would that require one of these airline-based sim classes?
Click to expand...

Not sure what u mean. Are you just flying an Apache around for funsies?
 
yeah I suppose my "question" was poorly presented.
to be clear, what I'm wondering is this
Are the only options for this 'CTP' to attend something like what has been described here...basically private pay for a class and ride in an airline sim?
or alternatively are there simpler options? (can any local flight school do it?). I mean, If I have zero desire to actually fly airlines but want the ATP rating, can I do the course in a GA aircraft....or a GA simulator?
This is just a curiosity line of questioning...the first I'd heard of this CTP course (since clearly I'm not on that track) and I'm just trying to better understand what it is.
 
Brad W said:
yeah I suppose my "question" was poorly presented.
to be clear, what I'm wondering is this
Are the only options for this 'CTP' to attend something like what has been described here...basically private pay for a class and ride in an airline sim?
or alternatively are there simpler options? (can any local flight school do it?). I mean, If I have zero desire to actually fly airlines but want the ATP rating, can I do the course in a GA aircraft....or a GA simulator?
This is just a curiosity line of questioning...the first I'd heard of this CTP course (since clearly I'm not on that track) and I'm just trying to better understand what it is.
Click to expand...
You must attend an approved CTP course, and the simulator portion has to be an airplane with a minimum takeoff weight of 40,000 lbs, so most local flight schools wouldn’t have the required equipment.
 
there's no pricing choice, it's a cartel. $4-$5k is about the going rate, regardless where you go.

As to the "I'm not interested in the airlines"....I mean, it even says 'airline' on the ticket (yes yes, I know other than part121 also use it as a discriminator). Pursuing credentials for recreation doesn't exempt you from the cost.
 
I think it’s funny that a rule stemming from an accident that could have been avoided by exercising basic stick and rudder skills mandated a course that teaches you how to use the automation.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I got the joke.

The 727 was my first jet. Never made it off the panel before the furlough. Then the place shut down. It was a short stay for me on the 727 but it was an awesome airplane. Getting experience on the panel has been very beneficial.
Click to expand...
I did my ~600 hours of FE time on the DC8. Never flew, nor plumbed, the 727. Just jumpseat. Strange place to put the gear silence switch. It was just under the throttles in the DC9. Never need to use it on the 737.
 
Brad W said:
ok, how do ya'll feel about ATP multi for flying say for example a Piper Apache PA-23-150. Would that require one of these airline-based sim classes?
Click to expand...
I'm not up on the current regs but I needed an ATP to fly Grand Canyon tours in a C-402 back in 1990 because we did scheduled operations. I don't think it would have been needed if they were non-sked.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I think it’s funny that a rule stemming from an accident that could have been avoided by exercising basic stick and rudder skills mandated a course that teaches you how to use the automation.
Click to expand...

In my review of the course, I noted the Colgan pilots would have passed this. And also I still don't know how to start a jet but I guess if a pilot gets sick on my next flight I will know how to handle an RA.
They really could have done a lot better with that course. Introduction to Crew flying and would have been way more beneficial than watching videos of Captain Joe whom I love dearly explain hydroplaning on a wet runway and studying every commercial crash since the 1980s.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I still don't know how to start a jet
Click to expand...
1. APU ... ON (plus 2 NG/3 MAX minute warm up.
2. Packs .(both) OFF
3. Isolation Value ... Auto
4. APU Bleed Air ... ON
5. Engine Start Switch (right first) ... GND
6. Chronograph start
6. Monitor: start value open (Upper DU), N2 rotation, oil pressure, N1 rotation (MAX: MOTORING on EGT)
7. At 25% N2, Fuel Fuel Switch ... IDLE
8. Monitor: Fuel flow then EGT
9. Monitor: Start value closed at 58%/63% N2, EGT red start limit radial removed

If you want pack air while you start the left engine (you do):
1. Isolation switch ... Closed
2. Right pack switch ... On

Start the left engine with the same procedure starting at Step 5

After left engine start
1. APU bleed switch ... Off
2. Isolation switch ... Auto
3. Left pack switch ... On
 
Larry in TN said:
1. APU ... ON (plus 2 NG/3 MAX minute warm up.
2. Packs .(both) OFF
3. Isolation Value ... Auto
4. APU Bleed Air ... ON
5. Engine Start Switch (right first) ... GND
6. Chronograph start
6. Monitor: start value open (Upper DU), N2 rotation, oil pressure, N1 rotation (MAX: MOTORING on EGT)
7. At 25% N2, Fuel Fuel Switch ... IDLE
8. Monitor: Fuel flow then EGT
9. Monitor: Start value closed at 58%/63% N2, EGT red start limit radial removed

If you want pack air while you start the left engine (you do):
1. Isolation switch ... Closed
2. Right pack switch ... On

Start the left engine with the same procedure starting at Step 5

After left engine start
1. APU bleed switch ... Off
2. Isolation switch ... Auto
3. Left pack switch ... On
Click to expand...
Expect a call from TSA. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top