How can we "encourage" AOPA to do better?

[Stevel]

If I'm getting this right, non profit means that any money left over gets paid to the employees. Like we got x millions in income from the subscribers but we only spent y million doing what we do so we have to do something with the difference else we would be making a profit. So we give it to the employees. Yeah, they gotta be paid a reasonable salary. But at what point are they just 'profiting'?

You are not getting it right.

 

[Brad W]

Write AOPA a letter (I don’t think they read email from the unwashed masses). Tell them you would join if they did more for the small GA segment, like address landing fees in a meaningful way. If a member, tell them you’re quitting until they do more for small GA, like address landing fees in a meaningful way. Just another thought.

I do believe you are right with that
but
the issue it would take a huge number of letters to make a big enough rattle
and I think as a general rule we're all just too lazy to do it...or maybe it's just too discouraged.. regardless, it's the same difference in the end...

Just like if a few of us wrote letters to Capitol Hill asking them to stop the madness of changing the clocks twice a year.... safe to say that a vast majority of "the people" would vote to stop it, but only a few letters get sent so the end result is nothing happens

 

[GLMS_NC]

Everyone wants to earn big-boy money, but to earn that you need to big-boy things. AOPA revenue is up 15% while Baker's salary DOUBLED? Are you kidding me? PLUS - his flying expenses were covered. I'd love to fly MY plane for work and have someone else pay all the bills. You're right - if more was getting done I could look past SOME of this, but when little to nothing gets done and these HUGE salaries are being paid - it's not for me. Look at the turnover in recent years; that ought to say something right there.

Back to the OP's question - YES they need to be doing a lot more.

 

[KE5BM]

Replying to the OP question before reading through the whole thread...

I got back into GA after a 20 year hiatus. My local field that has a flight school is CQX, a target of anti-airport activists. Nearly every week in the local paper there's some negative nancy screaming at the clouds about the dangers of aviation exhaust and the airport's master plan to bring commercial aviation to the 3000'x100' runway which, of course must be stopped at all costs through the implementation of a displaced threshold. There was a concerted effort a few years ago to permanently close the airport which in itself is funny. The airport is one of the oldest in the world so it can easily be argued that it was there long before anybody resided next to it. Anyway, the AOPA was instrumental in keeping that field open in the face of significant opposition. For this area, that's big points in AOPA's favor for small plane GA. Further, every year CQX holds an open house and fly-in which AOPA has a very visible presence at and makes a significant effort to get information out to non-pilots about what GA and small local fields do for the local economy.

As for the EAA and Young Eagles, it's a correct assumption that it's a failed mission for anything other than giving kids the thrill of flight just once. I've had a couple people follow up with me for more information/more flights since doing a Scout Aviation Merit Badge class and EAA Young Eagles flights but that's it. GA is unaffordable for most. Hell, I had to take a loan out against my retirement account just to be able to finish my PPL and be able to fund 200 or so hours and my income puts me in the upper bracket of most men my age.

If there's anything AOPA needs to focus on for the future of GA, it's to make GA more affordable for the newcomers. How do you do that? Aside from flight school scholarships and/or first aircraft ownership grants, I don't know. The cost of flying per hour has doubled since I started in 2001. Doesn't look like it's coming down anytime soon. But the planes keep getting older everyday.

 

[pfarber]

That's a kind way of telling you to **** off.

The problem is AOPA has to work with the government. That's AOPA's biggest problem.

GA numbers are shrinking because the golden age of aviation was 50 years ago.

GA adds over 300 new EAB to the FAA registery every year... that's growth.

AOPA is good for renters insurance (or it was a dozen years ago when I needed it) but it's not for the sub $100k working man who rents a few hours a year (aka most of the flying GA folks).

Remember you are the product when you join AOPA. They need you to sell advertising.

 

[hindsight2020]

Replying to the OP question before reading through the whole thread...


If there's anything AOPA needs to focus on for the future of GA, it's to make GA more affordable for the newcomers. How do you do that?

oh it's def clear you didn't read the whole thread before posting that. Your point was already handwaved away brother, fairly early on. No worries, I'll BLUF it for ya: "get. rich. sucka." Don't waste your time reading the whole thing.

Your effort to claw your way back into it is commendable, but due respect it's also not an actionable COA to grow the ranks in a substantive fashion, any more than "hoping" the balance of the YE lookie loos who don't end up as airline pilots stick around as adults.

but it's not for the sub $100k working man who rents a few hours a year (aka most of the flying GA folks).

That's why I posited my rhetorical question earlier in the thread, about AOPA's acronym probably being semantically an anachronism/astroturfing. POA may be a bit of an owner echo chamber in this context, I don't think they agree/internalize what you just stated as the reality on the ground.

 

[KE5BM]

@hindsight2020 It's too bad I cant react with multiple emotes on that post. I wanna laugh, like, and be angry at the same time. But yeah...get rich or die trying seems to be the way. And so long as we have young pilots coming out of college programs and fast-tracks willing to work for peanuts to build hours, there's just no reasonable way for a working man with a family to claw his way up to anything that pays reasonably well. At least not without taking on a quarter million in debt and spending a couple years separated from family. To say nothing about keeping up as a hobby.

 

[Half Fast]

there's just no reasonable way for a working man with a family to claw his way up to anything that pays reasonably well.

Huh?!

Please clarify. There are many, many career paths that allow a person to "claw his way up to anything that pays reasonably well." I must be missing your meaning.

 

[TCABM]

@hindsight2020 …so long as we have young pilots coming out of college programs and fast-tracks willing to work for peanuts to build hours, there's just no reasonable way for a working man with a family to claw his way up to anything that pays reasonably well. ….

Two things come to mind. First, it wasn’t that long ago (less than 20) young people coming out if college programs were willing to pay companies to fly their passenger jets. Others were (and still are) choosing to give their time away for free to gain hours.

Next, I’m curious if you’re suggesting the 1500hr rule be repealed and/or a first year regional FO starting at $96/hr and getting a min credit of 75hrs/month ($86K/yr) with an 8% 401k match will never make a dollar more over a twenty or thirty year career?

My experience has been I’ve made more this year than last year every year for the last 28 years. I expect I’ll make more next year than I did this year and that formula will ring true for the remaining five to fifteen years of my professional career.

If there’s one thing in life I’ve learned, it’s that you can make dollars work for you, exchange them for things of value, or be wasted. That’s each person’s decision to make.

 

[Martin Pauly]

as an airport manager I do not like Vector solutions and any other third party collection agents. They are all scams to me, no different than those operating traffic cams. There are better ways for us to generate revenue than driving off customers for a small percentage of a fee.

Agreed. As pilots, we need to help pay for the aviation infrastructure; but we should seek ways of doing so that (1) avoid undue administrative burden and (2) maximize the percentage of my contribution that actually ends up directly supporting the infrastructure.

Any solution that directs a large percentage of the collected fees to the collection process itself is bad.

Likewise, any solution that sends a monthly bill to the aircraft owner (e.g. flight school, flying club, partnership) and then leaves it up to them to figure out which pilot owes what amount is bad.

Any way I look at it, I keep coming back to utilizing an existing collection method if additional funds are indeed needed, and those are either the tax on the aviation fuel we already purchase, or fees collected by the FBO when I (the pilot, not the aircraft owner) are at the airport.

Out of curiosity: Does anyone know what percentage of the collected fee Vector keeps for themselves?

Regards,
Martin

 

[midwestpa24]

Out of curiosity: Does anyone know what percentage of the collected fee Vector keeps for themselves?

Regards,
Martin

I'm guessing that is a highly protected secret, just like what airports are using Vector.

 

[MichiPilot]

Forget writing AOPA an email or a letter or showing up at the door. Get rich, donate to the foundation and you'll be in... you can even pick your own ridiculous program to watch be driven into the ground... remember "reimagined 172s" ...

 

[Minormw]

Not quite sure what they do. And over 30 years of membership called twice when I really needed an assistance and was told if I googled it, I could find it on the Internet. Also, if you look at the pay of the top five executives, it’s outrageous what they get paid. That’s the wailing wall.

 

[KE5BM]

Huh?!

Please clarify. There are many, many career paths that allow a person to "claw his way up to anything that pays reasonably well." I must be missing your meaning.

Happy to. In my situation, for example I am the sole income for my family - wife and two kids aged 12 and 8. My income is more than sufficient to live comfortably on Cape Cod because I'm blessed with a rent payment that is somewhere between a third and half of what most have to pay around here for rent or mortgage. When I finally decide to pull the plug on my military career, my pay will immediately drop to about 40% of what I'm taking home now. This is not nearly enough for me and my family to live on in our current situation...even if we reduced down to rice and beans (seriously). By my math, when I retire from the Coast Guard I need to make the equivalent of $45/hr. at a 40 hour week to break even. I can reduce that to about $26/hr. if we make drastic, significant changes in what we do. As in, pull the kids out of every extra-curricular, stop all savings and investments, cut bills to the bare minimum, and eat rice and beans about half the week. Now, I say all that to say this...

Option 1 for a low-time PPL like myself is to work the local airport gig giving lessons and sight-seeing tours for about $20/flight hour. Or,
Option 2 put myself over $100k in debt, make no income and sell my soul to one of these fast-track programs and cross my fingers that I get a regional airline job that pays roughly the difference I'll lose in retirement and not see my family for the next 3 years as I build time to make a reasonable wage.

I currently have about 120 hours and only a PPL. I have to pay for every hour I spend in a plane, more if I'm getting a lesson. I pulled over $30k out of my retirement fund to help pay my way up to Commercial so that I might be able to make some money. But in my situation, professional flying seems out of reach. A year ago, I was much more hopeful but the realism hit me a few weeks ago. If I had the money like Trent (flywithtrent on youtube) it'd be easy. But I don't.

From my perspective (and maybe I'm wrong...I truly hope I am) that unless you decide you want to be a professional pilot starting at 17 years old, you're SOL unless you've started and sold a dozen companies like our man Trent. Even with all my savings and investments, I simply can't stop earning a paycheck for the time it would take to become a viable candidate for a professional hire. And based on the responses I got on a different thread here a few months ago, being a career CFI isn't the answer either (as much as I'd be very happy to do that).

I'm certainly open to any other perspective.

 

[KE5BM]

Two things come to mind. First, it wasn’t that long ago (less than 20) young people coming out if college programs were willing to pay companies to fly their passenger jets. Others were (and still are) choosing to give their time away for free to gain hours.

Next, I’m curious if you’re suggesting the 1500hr rule be repealed and/or a first year regional FO starting at $96/hr and getting a min credit of 75hrs/month ($86K/yr) with an 8% 401k match will never make a dollar more over a twenty or thirty year career?

My experience has been I’ve made more this year than last year every year for the last 28 years. I expect I’ll make more next year than I did this year and that formula will ring true for the remaining five to fifteen years of my professional career.

If there’s one thing in life I’ve learned, it’s that you can make dollars work for you, exchange them for things of value, or be wasted. That’s each person’s decision to make.

No, I'm not suggesting changing hiring requirements at all. Hell, with some of what we've seen lately I'm beginning to wonder if the 1500 mark should be scrutinized!

What I'm suggesting is that someone in my position doesn't have a clear path without significant hardship on one's family. (Outlined in detail in my previous post above) It's the whole gap between "I wanna be a pilot" and that FO job that's the problem. The barrier to entry is so incredibly high right now.

I've made more every year since the day I started working. However, the day I step away from my military career that will change which makes things so much more challenging. To your last line, exchanging my money for things of value is exactly what I've done to get where I'm at in aviation today. But that money will quickly run out. And by my math, I'll still be 1200 hours short of anybody willing to hire me for anything more than the occasional sight-seeing tour.

 

[TCABM]

….What I'm suggesting is that someone in my position doesn't have a clear path without significant hardship on one's family. (Outlined in detail in my previous post above) It's the whole gap between "I wanna be a pilot" and that FO job that's the problem. The barrier to entry is so incredibly high right now...

Depends. I retired in 2016 and came back after a .mil career’s worth of a break on the GA side. Went into the private sector and am in a partnership that makes flying as a hobby affordable. Next year I’ll knock out my CSEL written and maybe checkride. A couple after that I’ll do CFI and start teaching on the side to eventually CFI full time when I’m done with this phase of my life.

My backup plan if my employer no longer needs my services is to accelerate that timeline, CFI full timing within six months and have 1500hrs w/in 18 months.

If you want, we can go offline or have a call to further talk about the hows/whys. I mentor a lot of transitioning veterans and the one piece of advice that clicks most of them is if you put enough effort into your transition as you did your last PCS, you’re likely to be very successful.

There’s pathways to ATP mins that don’t require selling your soul to ATP for six figures.