Delta ATP-CTP Class

Here’s an update after completing day 2. It’s been fun so far, and learning quite a bit. I think I’m the only civilian here, and the environment is pretty serious so far (feel like we could use an ice breaker). I like aviation so even if it doesn’t apply directly to me, I enjoy learning different aspects of aviation. It’s been very Delta focused, classroom focused plus tours of the facilities and operations. 10 hours of Boeing 737 Max simulator training to come (to be entered in your logbook as well) plus you can earn endorsements signed off in your logbook (such as the high altitude endorsement, not sure if others are applicable - such as high performance or complex endorsement).

Will share more later.
 
I mean, people used to pay for type ratings for the "privilege" to work at SWA. So our homey could be forgiven for dabbling in parallel behavior, even if unnecessary in present market circumstances. To be clear, it represents zero discriminator value for the purposes of 121 hiring, if that's what's being implied (which to be clear, the OP has not actually stated).
 
hindsight2020 said:
I mean, people used to pay for type ratings for the "privilege" to work at SWA. So our homey could be forgiven for dabbling in parallel behavior, even if unnecessary in present market circumstances. To be clear, it represents zero discriminator value for the purposes of 121 hiring, if that's what's being implied (which to be clear, the OP has not actually stated).
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I believe @SixPapaCharlie had to complete the ATP-CTP on his own dime recently to get a 121 job. IIRC he said that his airline at least was no longer paying for it.

Without knowing what it costs, it might be an interesting way to get some multi turbine time in your logbook and some experience with a FFS. I'd think it'd be attractive to a 135 operator as well.
 
Congrats Jim on joining the MC. Ryan or the MC never responded to my application.

The class is $5000 and includes Sheppard air study material and PSI voucher for the exam.

Before starting the program, I was not considering a 121. But the program has a strong recruitment element built into it, and it is making me consider it as a future possibility. I want to maintain a good element of my lifestyle and freedom that I currently enjoy which might be possible going this route.
 
mandm said:
I want to maintain a good element of my lifestyle and freedom that I currently enjoy which might be possible going this route.
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Many of us prefer this lifestyle over a "normal" 9-to-5. It's really nice to frequently have a week-long block of days off and no pending work in your inbox distracting you. Just depends on the individual.

Will be interested to hear about your experience in the sim. The MAX flies a lot nicer than the NG. It's funny how so many passengers are afraid of the MAX while almost all of us 737 pilots much prefer it over the NG models.
 
Larry in TN said:
Many of us prefer this lifestyle over a "normal" 9-to-5. It's really nice to frequently have a week-long block of days off and no pending work in your inbox distracting you. Just depends on the individual.

Will be interested to hear about your experience in the sim. The MAX flies a lot nicer than the NG. It's funny how so many passengers are afraid of the MAX while almost all of us 737 pilots much prefer it over the NG models.
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I didn’t realize this until they showed us a sample schedule and even said that over 50% of pilots commute to work from all over the country. My impression on the work commitment was all wrong.
 
mandm said:
I want to maintain a good element of my lifestyle and freedom that I currently enjoy.
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What occupation affords you that presently? asking for a friend.

And you said you already have it, why change it? I only ask cuz my friend is getting kicked off it and forced to seek other employment he rather not, so I'm legit curious.
 
mandm said:
I didn’t realize this until they showed us a sample schedule and even said that over 50% of pilots commute to work from all over the country. My impression on the work commitment was all wrong.
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Yeah, that's normal. People, even GA pilots, often have misconceptions about our schedules.

I commute so I bid to have no more than three work-blocks per month which means only three commutes instead of four (or more). That usually gives me a block of five work days, a block of four, and a block of either three or four. My fleet doesn't have any five-day trips so that'll be a three-day and two-day back-to-back. I get a hotel at the airport for the night in between. I can specify the earlier show-time on day 1 and latest release time on the last day of each block. Depending on my seniority, which is now very good, how restrictive you can be will vary.

Some of the guys I fly with think I'm nuts to do that because "five days is too much. I don't even like four-days!" That's the best part. I get what I want and he can get what he wants. The airline doesn't care as long as all of the trips get covered.
 
Larry in TN said:
Many of us prefer this lifestyle over a "normal" 9-to-5. It's really nice to frequently have a week-long block of days off and no pending work in your inbox distracting you. Just depends on the individual.

Will be interested to hear about your experience in the sim. The MAX flies a lot nicer than the NG. It's funny how so many passengers are afraid of the MAX while almost all of us 737 pilots much prefer it over the NG models.
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I'm retired now, but the 737-700 was my favorite. Engines lit fairly quickly, less warm up time needed, could board it twice as fast, especially when full, could out climb the max, wasn't as pitchy, and cruised at least 2000 ft higher.
 
Mikey52 said:
I'm retired now, but the 737-700 was my favorite. Engines lit fairly quickly, less warm up time needed, could board it twice as fast, especially when full, could out climb the max, wasn't as pitchy, and cruised at least 2000 ft higher.
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Did you fly the MAX?

The 700 is the best flying of the NGs. Our warm up is 3min/5min on all of them. When you're used to the 800/900 it takes a minute to remember that you're not going to hit the tale and they're easier to land. Great for shorter runways and don't have the undesirable lateral stability with flaps 40. Very peppy. Our 700s are the oldest in our fleet, though.

The MAX is smooth and handles better in all phases. The fly-by-wire spoilers really refine the handling in landing configuration. Flaps 40 feels just like flaps 30, just ~7kts slower. Only downside is the nearly three-minute start time on each engine with the Leap1b.
 
Larry in TN said:
Yeah, that's normal. People, even GA pilots, often have misconceptions about our schedules.

I commute so I bid to have no more than three work-blocks per month which means only three commutes instead of four (or more). That usually gives me a block of five work days, a block of four, and a block of either three or four. My fleet doesn't have any five-day trips so that'll be a three-day and two-day back-to-back. I get a hotel at the airport for the night in between. I can specify the earlier show-time on day 1 and latest release time on the last day of each block. Depending on my seniority, which is now very good, how restrictive you can be will vary.

Some of the guys I fly with think I'm nuts to do that because "five days is too much. I don't even like four-days!" That's the best part. I get what I want and he can get what he wants. The airline doesn't care as long as all of the trips get covered.
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Agree, most of the people that tell you how bad airline pilot's have it have never been airline pilots...

Larry gave an example of narrow body schedule, if you end up flying wide body I do a max of three commutes per month and work no more than 10 days per month. Typically I have 3x3-day trips and I'm done for the month. About 1/2 the time I'll put two of those back to back so i only commute twice per month. It's certainly not for everyone and seniority is something that can't be rushed, but I can't find anywhere that I can work <10 days per month and make the money I'm making.

Good luck to ya!
 
Yes I flew the max, and -800's. Of the Boeings the -700, was right behind the 727-200 for me for favorite's. 390 kts indicated on the 727 was hard to beat, not to mention > 12,000 fpm rate of descent when needed. For comfort and ease of flying the A320 series was my favorite.
 
The 727-200's had a switch on the instrument panel. It was labeled A and B. All it did was move the VNE MMO pointer from 390 to 350. So if the ZFW and MGW were with in range you would select the appropriate mode. Most flights less than 4 hours even if full of passenger would qualify for the go fast mode. The MMO wasn't affected.

But you better bring your checkbook for more gas, because at FL 260 and 390 KIAS it would guzzle it. But taking off 10 minutes behind a MD80 from KORD to KMCI we could beat them there by 10 minutes.

a410dcf23b5db7470a6915e0ad9d502e.jpg


We could put the gear out at a MMO faster than a MAX can fly. Except of course for the two with the MCAS incidents.
 
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Jim K said:
I believe @SixPapaCharlie had to complete the ATP-CTP on his own dime recently to get a 121 job. IIRC he said that his airline at least was no longer paying for it.

Without knowing what it costs, it might be an interesting way to get some multi turbine time in your logbook and some experience with a FFS. I'd think it'd be attractive to a 135 operator as well.
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Mine was 5k. A few companies have stopped paying for it and made it a requirement to get an interview / job. The alternative is to be a cadet.
My interview was me and all the rest were cadets. Fresh faced CFIs with 500 hours. As I understand it, they work at flight schools which will pay
for the course and once hours and ratings are met, they have a job waiting for them. Pretty cool if you know you want to do this when you are on
the first half of your life.
 
Sorry to interrupt the discussion...but what is CTP?
Google tells me that it's a "Certification Training Program"
but just skimming some various references I see online I'm confused what it's purpose is. Seems to be some sort of prerequisite to sit for an ATP checkride?
Is it just an airline requirement or is it a requirement for anyone wanting an ATP certificate?

Regardless, as a PPL SEL guy I count myself very lucky to have "logged" some time in a B-777 Class D sim. Truly an amazing experience.
 
Brad W said:
Sorry to interrupt the discussion...but what is CTP?
Google tells me that it's a "Certification Training Program"
but just skimming some various references I see online I'm confused what it's purpose is. Seems to be some sort of prerequisite to sit for an ATP checkride?
Is it just an airline requirement or is it a requirement for anyone wanting an ATP certificate?

Regardless, as a PPL SEL guy I count myself very lucky to have "logged" some time in a B-777 Class D sim. Truly an amazing experience.
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Its a box you have to check that says "I paid $5,000 to watch youtube videos about plane crashes and fly 10 hours in a sim".
Its also the prerequisite for the ATP written test prep course.
 
Brad W said:
Sorry to interrupt the discussion...but what is CTP?
Google tells me that it's a "Certification Training Program"
but just skimming some various references I see online I'm confused what it's purpose is. Seems to be some sort of prerequisite to sit for an ATP checkride?
Is it just an airline requirement or is it a requirement for anyone wanting an ATP certificate?

Regardless, as a PPL SEL guy I count myself very lucky to have "logged" some time in a B-777 Class D sim. Truly an amazing experience.
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It’s required for everyone going for the multi engine ATP. Has to be done before you can even take the written test. Part of the fallout of the Colgan Air crash.
 
Does it have to be done on an airline level Sim?

What if, with no asperiations of ever flying airlines, Bob over at Bob's flying service where they fly single engine bug smashers wants to go for an ATP rating to fly said single engine bug smasher while wearing epaulettes?

(And I should add... I really do miss Paul Bertorelli's videos!)
1734725397859.png
 
Brad W said:
Does it have to be done on an airline level Sim?

What if, with no asperiations of ever flying airlines, Bob over at Bob's flying service where they fly single engine bug smashers wants to go for an ATP rating to fly said single engine bug smasher while wearing epaulettes?

(And I should add... I really do miss Paul Bertorelli's videos!)
View attachment 136391
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Does not apply to ATP-Single Engine.
 
Brad W said:
Does it have to be done on an airline level Sim?

What if, with no asperiations of ever flying airlines, Bob over at Bob's flying service where they fly single engine bug smashers wants to go for an ATP rating to fly said single engine bug smasher while wearing epaulettes?
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It's only required for the multiengine ATP. You can get ATP-ASEL without it.

Of course, ATP-ASEL is the most useless rating ever - There's pretty much no real-world operations that require it and it's difficult to even come up with theoretical ones that would.
Brad W said:
(And I should add... I really do miss Paul Bertorelli's videos!)
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I'm a big fan of Paul's, and that video with the ever-increasing stripes on the epaulettes while he flies a Cub around the pattern was hilarious.

I'm friends with him on Facebook and once or twice a week he'll post some totally random observation about life, and it is fantastically well written. I really enjoy his writing.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's only required for the multiengine ATP. You can get ATP-ASEL without it.

Of course, ATP-ASEL is the most useless rating ever - There's pretty much no real-world operations that require it and it's difficult to even come up with theoretical ones that would.

I'm a big fan of Paul's, and that video with the ever-increasing stripes on the epaulettes while he flies a Cub around the pattern was hilarious.

I'm friends with him on Facebook and once or twice a week he'll post some totally random observation about life, and it is fantastically well written. I really enjoy his writing.
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The man is a genius writer with an impeccable dry wit. I wish he hadn't left AvWeb
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
The man is a genius writer with an impeccable dry wit. I wish he hadn't left AvWeb
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Yes! He's retired now, and sadly sold the Cub a few months ago, choosing instead to tempt death on motorcycles with his wife.

But his writing is great. And since it's for himself on his own personal page, he gets to season it with the occasional expletive where it's effective. And I love the dry humor. Here's an example of a Paul post:


Screenshot 2024-12-20 at 3.05.51 PM.png

Now, if we have too much more thread drift, are we gonna need a "thread day"? ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's only required for the multiengine ATP. You can get ATP-ASEL without it.
Of course, ATP-ASEL is the most useless rating ever - There's pretty much no real-world operations that require it and it's difficult to even come up with theoretical ones that would.
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I know of a guy who left the Military with only a Multi engine ATP. It was easier for him to add a Single engine ATP than get a CSEL in order to fly a single engine airplane professionally.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Of course, ATP-ASEL is the most useless rating ever - There's pretty much no real-world operations that require it and it's difficult to even come up with theoretical ones that would.
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The couple of regulatory requirements for a single engine ATP went away 20 years ago or so.
 
Larry in TN said:
For takeoff, turn on the A/T and arm the VNAV. We're not Neanderthals!


You get used to them. They are much quieter on the MAX, too.
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Yeah we do A/T, manually increase throttles to N1 at 40 then press the TOGA buttons. Forgot what VNAV does, helps when you turn on the A/P or? I think we call out VNAV either at 400’ or 1000’, I forgot.
 
mandm said:
Yeah we do A/T, manually increase throttles to N1 at 40 then press the TOGA buttons. Forgot what VNAV does, helps when you turn on the A/P or? I think we call out VNAV either at 400’ or 1000’, I forgot.
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Nav @ 400
Vnav @ 1000

I think...
 
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