Replacing KLN89B with KLN94 Should be easy?

Chrisgoesflying

Chrisgoesflying

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Chrisgoesflying
I currently have a KLN89B installed in my Piper Cherokee. The plane is VFR only and has a placard stating that the GPS installed is for VFR flight only. I unexpectedly won an eBay auction for a KLN94 for much less $$$ than what they currently sell for so I thought, let's take the KLN89B out and put the KLN94 in. Shouldn't be an issue since it's a direct slide-in replacement unit. I emailed my nearest avionics person and he broke bad news to me, saying that the actual swapping of the units would take him literally 30 seconds, but it's considered a "major modification" and requires all sorts of paperwork for field approvals and whatnot - something he won't do for a unit that is as old as the KLN94. Is there anything I can do here? I don't need the plane to be "IFR Certified" with the KLN94. I want to keep it as a VFR plane. Is it really that difficult paperwork wise to replace the KLN89B with the slide-in replacement unit on a VFR plane?

To make matters a bit more difficult: I'm in the U.S. right now but my plane is a Canadian registered airplane. Back home, my mechanic actually recommended to get the KLN94 to replace the 89B and he said he can simply swap the units with a logbook entry. If that really is the case (I'll research TC documents to confirm), then a U.S. avionics person should also be able to simply swap the units and enter it in my logbook to make it legal, right?
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
then a U.S. avionics person should also be able to simply swap the units and enter it in my logbook to make it legal, right?
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Depends. If the shop is a CRS they might have certain requirements listed in their OpsSpecs on how alterations are performed. Repair stations actually are not as flexible as an independent A&P is with certain processes. Or it could be its the reason he gave you because they don't want the work. However, some of the older GPS had separate letters allowing for direct replacements of a VFR GPS with an IFR GPS and still retain the VFR/minor Alteration approval regardless what the IFR installation instructions state. But you still might want to wait till you get home and have your AME install it. I seem to recall for a US APIA to alter a C-reg aircraft it had to be performed per OEM instructions which if none exist for a KLN94 VFR install might create a problem. But this might of changed along with TCCA not allowing 337 field approvals as well for US performed C-reg alterations. The longer I enjoy my retirement the dimmer certain recollections get.
 
Nobody here on the form knows a Canadian A&P somewhere in Florida, Georgia, Alabama or South Carolina by any chance?
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Nobody here on the form knows a Canadian A&P somewhere in Florida, Georgia, Alabama or South Carolina by any chance?
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I wouldn't give up on the US APIA yet. TCCA AMEs can be a bit rare down here especially in the south. Perhaps talk to an US APIA about the FAA letter above and see if it meets their acceptance to Part 43.17 and the TCCA requirements linked below. It doesn't appear much has changed. Personally I don't see an issue so long as the 94 install remains VFR and a minor. Maybe ping Dan Thomas or discuss with your AME for input?
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/ai...entation-procedures-united-states#section_b_1
 
How burdensome would be point 5 and
Bell206 said:
I wouldn't give up on the US APIA yet. TCCA AMEs can be a bit rare down here especially in the south. Perhaps talk to an US APIA about the FAA letter above and see if it meets their acceptance to Part 43.17 and the TCCA requirements linked below. It doesn't appear much has changed. Personally I don't see an issue so long as the 94 install remains VFR and a minor. Maybe ping Dan Thomas or discuss with your AME for input?
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/ai...entation-procedures-united-states#section_b_1
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I saw this document as well. The way I read it (and I may be wrong), doesn't it say that even if this was considered a major modification by Transport Canada, a U.S. A&P could still perform the work, fill out the half page Transport Canada PDF form, give it to me and I have to send it to Transport Canada within 30 days? No approval or dealings with the FAA required.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
doesn't it say that even if this was considered a major modification by Transport Canada, a U.S. A&P could still perform the work,
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Yes, major alterations can be performed by an APIA but FAA 337 field approvals are not acceptable (item C) for TCCA. So short of TC approved data you would be limited for a major alt for the 94 install. If you're pursuing the 94 as a minor VFR install I don't see a problem. However, this is where I defer to your AME. Call him and get his input. The last thing you need is to get it installed here and signed but run into a glitch once you get home. Its been too long since I worked on C-reg aircraft here to give you a definitive answer plus most were helicopters.

upload_2022-11-28_16-33-22.jpg
 
I did this exact swap. The install manual actually spells this out in the back. VFR to VFR or IFR to IFR is a log book entry, since you already have the install. VFR to IFR is a field approval and 337, as if it was a new installation. This is what I did. Had to install the required annunciators and CDI, work with an ASI at the local FSDO. Doable, but I had all the equipment on hand, and did the wiring and install under the supervision of an A&P IA
 
It's going to be expensive. The KLN94 needs fan, an annunciator and an indicator. Better off selling the KLN94 for what you can get. If you're going to spend all that on an install you might as well install a new box.
 
steingar said:
It's going to be expensive. The KLN94 needs fan, an annunciator and an indicator. Better off selling the KLN94 for what you can get. If you're going to spend all that on an install you might as well install a new box.
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I doubt that's the case. The KLN94 is a slide-in replacement for the 89B which is already installed with a fan. Even the avionics shop that doesn't want to take the job said the actual installation of the unit would take literally 30 seconds. The only reason why they don't want to take the job is because it would require lots of paperwork and they're not familiar with the Canadian regs. I came here to find out if it really would require a lot of paperwork going 89B VFR to 94 VFR. Seems like the general consensus on the forum is, it does not require a lot of paperwork. My mechanic up north also emailed me today confirming nothing but a logbook entry required in Canada and a qualified U.S. A&P is allowed to perform the 30 second install. If anything other than swapping the units was required, he would have let me know when he recommended to just get the 94 and he'll do the swap. I just didn't get my hands on one until I got to Florida for the winter. I just now have to find someone who will do it, maybe after speaking to my Canadian mechanic if they don't believe me. Alternatively, I'll just wait until I'm back to Canada and get it installed in the spring.
 
King will support them, last time I did a subscription is was $440/year. If you can find the flash cards and their writer it makes updates a breeze. If. I'd not buy a KLN94 without them.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I just now have to find someone who will do it,
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Here's a link to the 94 install manual which also has the FAA letter from above at the end. Appendix D shows 89 > 94 swap. I'd stay away from any repair station and look for an experienced independent APIA who might understand the plan a bit better. Also keep Part 43.17 and the TCCA link above handy for any additional "sales" material when talking to a mechanic. Good luck.
https://www.csobeech.com/files/KLN94Install.pdf
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I currently have a KLN89B installed in my Piper Cherokee. The plane is VFR only and has a placard stating that the GPS installed is for VFR flight only. I unexpectedly won an eBay auction for a KLN94 for much less $$$ than what they currently sell for so I thought, let's take the KLN89B out and put the KLN94 in. Shouldn't be an issue since it's a direct slide-in replacement unit. I emailed my nearest avionics person and he broke bad news to me, saying that the actual swapping of the units would take him literally 30 seconds, but it's considered a "major modification" and requires all sorts of paperwork for field approvals and whatnot - something he won't do for a unit that is as old as the KLN94. Is there anything I can do here? I don't need the plane to be "IFR Certified" with the KLN94. I want to keep it as a VFR plane. Is it really that difficult paperwork wise to replace the KLN89B with the slide-in replacement unit on a VFR plane?

To make matters a bit more difficult: I'm in the U.S. right now but my plane is a Canadian registered airplane. Back home, my mechanic actually recommended to get the KLN94 to replace the 89B and he said he can simply swap the units with a logbook entry. If that really is the case (I'll research TC documents to confirm), then a U.S. avionics person should also be able to simply swap the units and enter it in my logbook to make it legal, right?
Click to expand...
Did you ever get this installed. I was wondering how it went for you.
 
The change from the 89 to the 94 is a log book entry -IF- you are only using it for VFR as placarded. When I swapped mine, we added the indicator, connection to the altitude encoder, etc. Because this is such a common install, getting a field approval for using t for IFR was not a big deal. Just paperwork. Couple back-and-forth with the local FSDO ASI, and we were able to proceed with the install, file the paperwork (337).

Indeed, though, I was the one doing the work under supervision of my A&P IA, and if I was paying an avionics shop for this, it probably would not have been worth it. But my labor is 'free', and the CDI was cheap used, and the new altitude encoder wasn't horrible $ either. End result was great. GPS approved for IFR en-route and LNAV approaches.
 
Sounds like it was well, and you got to enjoy it for a short time atleast.
 
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