Long Cross country 51.8nm straight line without landing at airport?

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Myself

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Myself
Hello all, a question regarding the long cross country requirement for private pilots.

The rule says “One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations”.

Looking for input to apply this to my situation:

I’m a student pilot, and I set out for a long cross country from my home airport, and landed at 2 different airports for a total of 47nm distance. I flew 51.8 miles in a straight line onroute to my third airport (which was at a distance of 65nm from the second airport), before I decided to divert back to my home airport (another 52 miles away) due to unexpected smoke/visibility issues over the third airport. I could not land at the third airport. However, my total route was 150nm, and I had a total of three landings. Would this meet the requirement per the rule? The straight line distance between the takeoff (second airport) and landing location (my home base) is less than 50nm, however, as I was headed to third airport, I did fly 51.8 miles in a straight line, before diverting.

Would I have to redo my long solo cross country?

My checkride is coming up, and weather is not cooperating for another long solo, so curious if my cross-country meets the requirements. Appreciate input particularly from any DPE’s and/CFI’s out here... Thanks!
 
I think you answered your question ... "and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations." :dunno:
 
Myself said:
… I set out for a long cross country from my home airport, and landed at 2 different airports for a total of 47nm distance. … I could not land at the third airport. …

Would I have to redo my long solo cross country?
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Somewhere I don’t see landing at three points in there, but there was a lot of words that didn’t make it clear.
 
Short answer: yes.

Longer answer, you WANT to redo it because if you get to your checkride, the DPE is going to make sure you are eligible for the checkride before you begin. This is one of the items he will check. When he sees that you didn’t fully meet the requirements, he will discontinue before you ever actually start. 99% chance you need more flight time anyway, so ENJOY it. Make it something fun!

You used good Aeronautical Decision Making by diverting, but you do still need to check that box.
 
Looks like it doesn't count. How could it?

You "landed at 2 different airports for a total of 47nm distance" then you landed at your home airport. At no point did you land more than 50nm from your departure airport.
 
As soon as you say “no landing” it’s a red flag there is a problem. But…

We often see questions here about whether a particular route satisfies the requirements. Telling us the actual route is so much more helpful than trying to parse a word salad that may be missing some croutons.
 
As another note, even though the regs don’t appear to be written this way, a couple of DPEs in my area require EACH leg to be 50NM+.
 
flyingpreacher said:
As another note, even though the regs don’t appear to be written this way, a couple of DPEs in my area require EACH leg to be 50NM+.
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I really, really don't like DPEs choosing their own adventure. The regulation is clear on the requirements and doesn't require any additional interpretation. One leg at least 50NM. Inventing additional requirements for applicants should be grounds for an inquiry into their suitability to be a DPE. They are charged with examining applicants to ensure they meet FAA standards, not Joe-Bob's standards.
 
Anyone else remember the time the Buffalo FSDO put something up on their website saying that all legs of a cross country had to be >50 NM in order to count? It was mentioned in a thread, I think in the old AOPA forums. A number wrote into the Chief Counsel's office and the page disappeared in about a week.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Anyone else remember the time the Buffalo FSDO put something up on their website saying that all legs of a cross country had to be >50 NM in order to count? It was mentioned in a thread, I think in the old AOPA forums. A number wrote into the Chief Counsel's office and the page disappeared in about a week.
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I am certainly not in Buffalo, but maybe close enough that the local DPE got that memo but not the retraction.
 
Myself said:
Hello all, a question regarding the long cross country requirement for private pilots.

The rule says “One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations”.

Looking for input to apply this to my situation:

I’m a student pilot, and I set out for a long cross country from my home airport, and landed at 2 different airports for a total of 47nm distance. I flew 51.8 miles in a straight line onroute to my third airport (which was at a distance of 65nm from the second airport), before I decided to divert back to my home airport (another 52 miles away) due to unexpected smoke/visibility issues over the third airport. I could not land at the third airport. However, my total route was 150nm, and I had a total of three landings. Would this meet the requirement per the rule? The straight line distance between the takeoff (second airport) and landing location (my home base) is less than 50nm, however, as I was headed to third airport, I did fly 51.8 miles in a straight line, before diverting.

Would I have to redo my long solo cross country?

My checkride is coming up, and weather is not cooperating for another long solo, so curious if my cross-country meets the requirements. Appreciate input particularly from any DPE’s and/CFI’s out here... Thanks!
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That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; no land, no count,
 
Re-do it. Go over the FARs with your CFI. Don’t go cheaping out. The money you spend on flying the XC is not even a rounding error on what you’ll spend in the next couple years flying, let alone lifetime.
 
flyingpreacher said:
I am certainly not in Buffalo, but maybe close enough that the local DPE got that memo but not the retraction.
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Maybe but not that likely. This was probably more than 20 years ago. And something the FAA has repeated several times. At this point, sounds more like DPEs making up their own rules rather than the FAA's.
 
Myself said:
The rule says “One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations”.
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Myself said:
The straight line distance between the takeoff (second airport) and landing location (my home base) is less than 50nm
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I'm curious what part of this is thought to be ambiguous.
 
It's the "oh no it can't be true, it can't be true so it must not be true", phenomenon. We see it all the time.
With what I do, It's "well why isn't that good enough?" after whcih the airman is referred to my "i expect the problem solving mentality" statment, and if he asks again, he gets terminated from my work.

With the feds it's not "why", it's has the square been filled"....and with the appropriate stuff....
 
I remember seeing a guy getting back from a 2nd >50 NM xc because he was 0.1 hrs short of his 5 hrs.

Stuff happens, just do it. And it isn't a do-over since it hasn't happened yet. It sounds like the first flight was a great learning experience, but it didn't check that box.
 
Matthew said:
I remember seeing a guy getting back from a 2nd >50 NM xc because he was 0.1 hrs short of his 5 hrs.

Stuff happens, just do it. And it isn't a do-over since it hasn't happened yet. It sounds like the first flight was a great learning experience, but it didn't check that box.
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Yup. This happened to me. I had to divert from a pre-PPL solo XC due to destination weather as well, and ended up with just under the time requirement. CFI asked why I didn't burn time with an extra 15 minutes of steep turns on one of my flights....yeah, I failed to track it all while in flight.

It's a relatively inexpensive lesson on flight planning.
 
Does not count for private. Gotta do it over, even though it was the result of good decisionmaking.
 
StraightnLevel said:
CFI asked why I didn't burn time with an extra 15 minutes of steep turns on one of my flights....yeah, I failed to track it all while in flight.
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I did the same with the 10 hours of dual in a complex/TAA for Commercial. Landed my last scheduled dual instruction flight with 9.9 on the hobbs... had to schedule another lesson and take a lap around the pattern with a CFI. Whoops
 
I couldn't really decipher your flight for sure, two so simple questions..

Did you.... "includes a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure"

If yes then Yes it is a Cross Country...

Did you....." flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations"

If also Yes then it will meet you long Cross Country requirement.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
From my reading of the text, I think OP did this:

SCENARIO.jpg

The leg measuring 60.73nm was not flown, since the pilot diverted before reaching the airport where the third intended landing was to take place. Neither of the two airports where a landing took place was greater than 50nm straight line distance from the point of origin, so it wouldn't satisfy the requirements despite the airplane's ground track covering a straight line distance greater than 50nm between two landings.
 
Redid my xc because I didn't understand it needed to be full stop. After waiting 10+ minutes to depart a class c in 95 degree sun I decided at the next stop to do a touch and go. I had planned to fuel up at a different airport before heading home. But the stiff direct crosswind nixed that idea. As I'm overflying I hear the guy that attempted to land there go around. So that made me feel better. Cfi asked "are you SURE it wasn't a full stop?" Good thing I re did it. Dpe pulled up my xc on flightaware
 
I made sure to land at an airport at least 51 nmi away, because, by my calculations, an airport that was EXACTLY 50 nmi away was, in reality, about 10 feet short because the "straight line distance" would, technically, be through the earth's crust and not at a safe flight altitude. :cool:
 
Rene said:
I made sure to land at an airport at least 51 nmi away, because, by my calculations, an airport that was EXACTLY 50 nmi away was, in reality, about 10 feet short because the "straight line distance" would, technically, be through the earth's crust and not at a safe flight altitude. :cool:
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I have my students plan 60 of 70 miles away just so there is never a question.
 
TommyG said:
I have my students plan 60 of 70 miles away just so there is never a question.
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I see no reason to cut it so close, you would think they don’t like to fly? Cross country trips were the best part of the training.

IIRC, doesn’t Hawaii have special rules about this?
 
Just go fly and enjoy it, your long xc, Fly extra,just to make sure, you don’t want a disqualified over a bad interpretation and a mile short. I would never just fly the minimum requirements
 
TommyG said:
I have my students plan 60 of 70 miles away just so there is never a question.
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I mean, 51 is good enough. if you put a ruler on the chart and it's 51nm, who is going to challenge you? That being said, I would think students should flight plan alternates for all of their landings on the long XC and make sure there are alternates >50nm for the last take off. You should never assume you're going to be able to land at your planned destination hours before you get there. The OP and the CFI should have had an alternate in the plan for the >50nm leg.
 
Matthew said:
I remember seeing a guy getting back from a 2nd >50 NM xc because he was 0.1 hrs short of his 5 hrs.
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Lol, I was in this situation because of a very stiff tailwind on my way back to my starting point. Fortunately I was keeping track and did what was probably the only assertive thing I did during training, asked Norcal to put me somewhere to fly a race tract because I needed to burn 30 minutes.
 
morleyz said:
Lol, I was in this situation because of a very stiff tailwind on my way back to my starting point. Fortunately I was keeping track and did what was probably the only assertive thing I did during training, asked Norcal to put me somewhere to fly a race tract because I needed to burn 30 minutes.
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My CFI sent me off on my last XC and looked at my logbook. We added up the time I needed, then looked at the Hobbs. She told me to make sure to not land until that Hobbs read (whatever) even if it meant slow flight, turns around a point, or s-turns on final. It was a non factor but a good reminder.
 
Bummer for the OP that (apparently) this flight won't count due to the diversion, I can sympathize.
But, CFIs, how about assigning students an actual LONG cross country? I'm not talking about thousands of miles, but IMHO, if you have to count tenths of miles to assure the trip fulfills requirements, it's not long enough. Of course, around here, out west, 50nm isn't even out of the practice area.
 
Jim Carpenter said:
Bummer for the OP that (apparently) this flight won't count due to the diversion, I can sympathize.
But, CFIs, how about assigning students an actual LONG cross country? I'm not talking about thousands of miles, but IMHO, if you have to count tenths of miles to assure the trip fulfills requirements, it's not long enough. Of course, around here, out west, 50nm isn't even out of the practice area.
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Not too long ago, back in the stone age before tablets, we had to use paper charts. If you worked it right you could cross from the front side of the chart to the back side, then off the corner onto another sectional. That happened to me on one of my XCs. Drawing that route and measuring it was all kinds of fun. And handling the charts while flying was a good time, too. That experience was great for route awareness (landmarks, towers, airspace, whatever). That info
Is still there on a tablet but in order to see a good landmark you have to zoom in so far you lose the big picture. I think flight planning is very important and there are things you get out of doing it on a paper sectional you don’t get on a tablet. I guess I’m showing my age. But maybe drawing it out and measuring would have helped the OP answer his own question of “does it count”.

Still, good on the OP for the divert decision.
 
Rene said:
I made sure to land at an airport at least 51 nmi away, because, by my calculations, an airport that was EXACTLY 50 nmi away was, in reality, about 10 feet short because the "straight line distance" would, technically, be through the earth's crust and not at a safe flight altitude. :cool:
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We have one airport like that, I think I have had every DPE in our area tell me they have rejected flights that applicants have tried to claim it as a cross country. You would the think their CFI's would get the message that has to be Greater than 50 miles.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I was looking to visit my daughter and using that for my commercial solo. But airport to airport is 249.x NM. Fortunately there’s a small airport with cheap fuel about 10 NM on the opposite side.
 
Rene said:
I made sure to land at an airport at least 51 nmi away, because, by my calculations, an airport that was EXACTLY 50 nmi away was, in reality, about 10 feet short because the "straight line distance" would, technically, be through the earth's crust and not at a safe flight altitude. :cool:
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BDR to BDL is exactly 50.1 nm. Just sayin’.

-Skip
 
I think I always sent students on XCs where the first leg was over 50. I'm not sure what OP's instructor's thought process was doing two segments and still being less than 50 miles from the OPoD.
 
dmspilot said:
I think I always sent students on XCs where the first leg was over 50. I'm not sure what OP's instructor's thought process was doing two segments and still being less than 50 miles from the OPoD.
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Going back to the original post, looks like the plan may have been OK but the decision not to land at one of the airports due to conditions cut it short.

It happens. I diverted on two of my student solo cross countries, but I landed at another airport instead of giving up.
 
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