Deferred Medical Review Time (Alcohol Related)

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Oren Mason

Filing Flight Plan
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Jul 15, 2020
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flyboy595
Hello All,
I have held a first class medical since 2016. I'll try to make a long story short.
In 2010 I was 18 years old and received 2 tickets for underaged possession of alcohol. In 2013 I received a drunk in public ticket.
The ticket was so simple I just paid the fine and forgot about it.
I disclosed the possession of alcohol on (I think) all my MedExpress forms, but honestly forgot about the DIP.
Im a full time pro pilot now, but this year the FAA decided to defer my medical for the 2 possession of All charges, also I made sure to disclose the DIP ticket this year. But I had not in previous years.

I stopped drinking 5 years ago for personal reasons. My driving record is clean. The charges are so old the police reports don't exist anymore.

At first the AME guaranteed me a quick turn around because he spoke to regional, but then regional looked a little deeper and sent it to OKC. Basically im in the stack now and there is no more "quick turn around" from regional.

Ive got 3 alcohol related things on the record, non driving related, 10 and 14 years old, yes they happened and I can answer for them.

I sent in all my paperwork on 10/21/24. Ive called OKC and they have no response for when I'll get a review.

MedExpress has my status as Action Required "Exam Date 10/17/24"
10/21/24 FAA requested more info, and I got it in the next day through the AME.
AOPA says it could take months.
AME said it could be soon.
FAA guy said "They might request a HIMS Eval" but saidI should not proactively get one unless they ask for one.

Im wondering if I should start looking for other jobs in the mean time, not knowing if this will drag out.
 
The AME guaranteed you? Are you freaking kidding me?
You should be peeing in the cup so you have 6 months negative before you go to the HIMS psychiatrist.
3 documented alcohol events is the automatic defintiion of alcohol dependnecy from part 67.

This is going to take some time....and your AME is not being pro-active (Maybe he doesn't know any better).

B
 
Oren Mason said:
Im wondering if I should start looking for other jobs in the mean time, not knowing if this will drag out.
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Well, that's a financial question and it comes down to how long your money will hold out, but were I you I'd at least start looking for another AME.
 
bbchien said:
The AME guaranteed you? Are you freaking kidding me?
You should be peeing in the cup so you have 6 months negative before you go to the HIMS psychiatrist.
3 documented alcohol events is the automatic defintiion of alcohol dependnecy from part 67.

This is going to take some time....and your AME is not being pro-active (Maybe he doesn't know any better).

B
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Thanks for the reply.

I’m happy to be pro active. I just haven’t been advised so to so. Do you recommend I look at talking to another AME? Start selecting an alcohol testing place?
Respectfully all of that seems rather absurd as the charges are SO old and I do not consume alcohol at all, zero.

But I will do what I gotta do.

At the moment I have no plan other than to wait. Sounds like I need a better plan.
 
Half Fast said:
Well, that's a financial question and it comes down to how long your money will hold out, but were I you I'd at least start looking for another AME.
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Agreed. It's a devastating thing, and not knowing if I have a month or 6 months throws off any plans I can make.
 
bbchien said:
The AME guaranteed you? Are you freaking kidding me?
You should be peeing in the cup so you have 6 months negative before you go to the HIMS psychiatrist.
3 documented alcohol events is the automatic defintiion of alcohol dependnecy from part 67.

This is going to take some time....and your AME is not being pro-active (Maybe he doesn't know any better).

B
Click to expand...
AME initially recommended I go to a HIMS AME.
he then said regional told him that's a bad idea, and only go If im asked.
 
Go find a HIMS AME and get started. do't get the eval just get his adivse and start PEEING IN THE CUP. You can only win by adequlately documenting your sobirety. There is no downside.
"Hope, and Change" is not a strategy.
 
ORE said:
Respectfully all of that seems rather absurd as the charges are SO old and I do not consume alcohol at all, zero.
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Says literally everyone in this position, ever.
 
mryan75 said:
Says literally everyone in this position, ever.
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But he’s right. It IS absurd given the timeframes and ages involved. We on this board are desensitized to it since there are near weekly posts on the same topic, we all know how the FAA works.


Is it the law/rules? Yes, it is. That doesn’t make it any less absurd from a “reasonableness” perspective.

…and this is coming from someone who doesn’t drink at all currently.
 
dans2992 said:
But he’s right. It IS absurd given the timeframes and ages involved.
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Why? Caught once, 14 years ago - yep, absurd. Caught 3 times, two different types of alcohol-related events? Meh, sorry, not absurd.
 
...he continued to drink in the face of negative consequences. That' the defintion of alcohol dependency, albeit asserted (not substantiated) to be dry and known to be untreated. Time to start substantiating assertions, eh? .....they aren't going to trust the subject of the application, are they?
 
bbchien said:
Go find a HIMS AME and get started. do't get the eval just get his adivse and start PEEING IN THE CUP. You can only win by adequlately documenting your sobirety. There is no downside.
"Hope, and Change" is not a strategy.
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Thanks for the advice.
bbchien said:
...he continued to drink in the face of negative consequences. That' the defintion of alcohol dependency, albeit asserted (not substantiated) to be dry and known to be untreated. Time to start substantiating assertions, eh? .....they aren't going to trust the subject of the application, are they?
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Correct. Im simply here to seek advice and council. I have a family to support. Making a point about FAA policy isn't my goal.
 
bbchien said:
...he continued to drink in the face of negative consequences. That' the defintion of alcohol dependency, albeit asserted (not substantiated) to be dry and known to be untreated. Time to start substantiating assertions, eh? .....they aren't going to trust the subject of the application, are they?
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Im assuming PEE IN CUP is my best start? Obviously treatment for 10 year old misdemeanors with 5 years stated sobriety will not require a substance abuse treatment plan (Birds, AA).
My AME said not to "start a process that will make this take longer when they have not requested it" But im fine will P in Cup and anything I can do to show good faith.
 
dans2992 said:
But he’s right. It IS absurd given the timeframes and ages involved. We on this board are desensitized to it since there are near weekly posts on the same topic, we all know how the FAA works.


Is it the law/rules? Yes, it is. That doesn’t make it any less absurd from a “reasonableness” perspective.

…and this is coming from someone who doesn’t drink at all currently.
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I agree, but to be clear, it's not the Law or Rules. It's a policy decision by CAMI.
 
As @bbchien stated, get with a HIMS AME and get going with this. Get set up on a drug/alcohol monitoring plan. The HIMS AME will probably set you up with Choice Lab Inc to do a 10-panel w/EtG test at a frequency of no less than 14 tests within a 12 month period (the HIMS AME can increase the frequency if he wishes). I would also start attending peer support group activities minimum twice weekly. Birds Of A Feather is one such group that is geared toward pilots.


I would also engage with an aftercare counselor who specializes in treating drug/alcohol abuse cases.
 
Jon Wilder said:
As @bbchien stated, get with a HIMS AME and get going with this. Get set up on a drug/alcohol monitoring plan. The HIMS AME will probably set you up with Choice Lab Inc to do a 10-panel w/EtG test at a frequency of no less than 14 tests within a 12 month period (the HIMS AME can increase the frequency if he wishes). I would also start attending peer support group activities minimum twice weekly. Birds Of A Feather is one such group that is geared toward pilots.


I would also engage with an aftercare counselor who specializes in treating drug/alcohol abuse cases.
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would that be assuming I could get a special issuance with random screenings? or assuming I’m looking at 12 months before any issuance?

Going to AA or Birds or a peer support group is not an option for me, as I’m 5 years from any alcohol for personal reasons not clinical. My record has been clean since that DIP ticket 10 years ago.

Screenings I can see as I’m sure FAA needs to see that I’m truthful.
 
Oren Mason said:
would that be assuming I could get a special issuance with random screenings? or assuming I’m looking at 12 months before any issuance?

Going to AA or Birds or a peer support group is not an option for me, as I’m 5 years from any alcohol for personal reasons not clinical. My record has been clean since that DIP ticket 10 years ago.

Screenings I can see as I’m sure FAA needs to see that I’m truthful.
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Anyone can go to peer support group. Many people in peer support groups are there because that's what keeps them away from alcohol. So there are many people who attend peer support groups who haven't drank in years. They are also very accommodating to those who are there for administrative reasons. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

And they're free.

Where you may run into the issue is finding an aftercare counselor because of the 5 years (most won't take you if you've been sober for longer than 12 months). You may have to call around to different addiction counseling service providers and explain to them your situation because if you do get the HIMS special issuance, the FAA is going to require this (they may actually require group aftercare).

It's very rare that the FAA doesn't grant a HIMS special issuance to those who can demonstrate 100% compliance with the HIMS program. When they do, your Special Issuance Authorization Letter will more than likely list the very requirements I mentioned in my previous post.
 
Jon Wilder said:
Anyone can go to peer support group. Many people in peer support groups are there because that's what keeps them away from alcohol. So there are many people who attend peer support groups who haven't drank in years. They are also very accommodating to those who are there for administrative reasons. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

And they're free.

Where you may run into the issue is finding an aftercare counselor because of the 5 years (most won't take you if you've been sober for longer than 12 months). You may have to call around to different addiction counseling service providers and explain to them your situation because if you do get the HIMS special issuance, the FAA is going to require this (they may actually require group aftercare).

It's very rare that the FAA doesn't grant a HIMS special issuance to those who can demonstrate 100% compliance with the HIMS program. When they do, your Special Issuance Authorization Letter will more than likely list the very requirements I mentioned in my previous post.
Click to expand...

Jon Wilder said:
Anyone can go to peer support group. Many people in peer support groups are there because that's what keeps them away from alcohol. So there are many people who attend peer support groups who haven't drank in years. They are also very accommodating to those who are there for administrative reasons. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.

And they're free.

Where you may run into the issue is finding an aftercare counselor because of the 5 years (most won't take you if you've been sober for longer than 12 months). You may have to call around to different addiction counseling service providers and explain to them your situation because if you do get the HIMS special issuance, the FAA is going to require this (they may actually require group aftercare).

It's very rare that the FAA doesn't grant a HIMS special issuance to those who can demonstrate 100% compliance with the HIMS program. When they do, your Special Issuance Authorization Letter will more than likely list the very requirements I mentioned in my previous post.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry for so many questions I just want to be clear on your advice.

Are you saying I could start a HIMS drug/alcohol testing program without the psychological eval. With anticipation of a special issuance that lets me continue to fly while also complying with the HIMS recommendations?

For example I get back from the FAA that I’ll need a HIMS, and I say, great I’ve already started! And in that case I may be eligible for a special issuance?

Or

Start a HIMS case and when that’s complete - 6-12 months later, I could fly again.
 
go to hims ame and start montioring with him overseeing it. i think u will need min six months negative plus time for the faa to process the application
 
Oren Mason said:
I’m sorry for so many questions I just want to be clear on your advice.

Are you saying I could start a HIMS drug/alcohol testing program without the psychological eval. With anticipation of a special issuance that lets me continue to fly while also complying with the HIMS recommendations?

For example I get back from the FAA that I’ll need a HIMS, and I say, great I’ve already started! And in that case I may be eligible for a special issuance?

Or

Start a HIMS case and when that’s complete - 6-12 months later, I could fly again.
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You absolutely can! When I had to do my HIMS psych evaluation, the psych required me to be on the random testing and to complete 4 months of testing before he would book me an appointment.

It's in your best interest to get going on all of this right away.

BTW...your peer support group activities must be logged. Print up a signature sheet so that each meeting, you can have someone sign that you attended the meeting. I used this one -


I wish I could tell you different, but the FAA doesn't seem to care how old your offenses are (mine were from 15+ years ago). They're going to treat you like you just got the offenses, and if you're unwilling to admit that you're an alcoholic, they're going to send you to "re-education" (i.e. intensive outpatient/group aftercare) until you do. So there are one of two ways that you can handle this. (a) Admit that you're an alcoholic (even if you feel that you are not...this is where it's acceptable to lie) and admit it freely, even to the HIMS psych, and be willing to take accountability for your actions, or (b) stand your ground and prove that you're not. Method (b) will take longer, will require more money, and an attorney, and there's no guarantee of success.
 
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The bottleneck from the timeline standpoint is going to be the alcohol testing. Everything else (AA meetings, counseling) is likely to be doable in pretty short order. So as has been said a few times already, setup an appointment with a HIMS AME and get started.
 
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