Looking for info on less lethal/non lethal self defense products

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MauleSkinner

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MauleSkinner
My wife and daughters have been carrying pepper spray on their key rings for several years now, but there was an event this weekend where they both felt the need for increased protection. My wife and I took a concealed carry class a few years ago, but even with a few in the house, we just aren’t comfortable enough with the idea of carrying firearms for various reasons.

But when my wife was at the gun shop/firing range investigating alternatives, pepper ball guns came up. They seem a lot closer to our comfort level. The Byrne website, https://byrna.com/ , says “legal in 50 states,” but what does that really mean? And what kind of restrictions would we need to look for on the state and local levels?

Can anyone school me a bit on this stuff?

Thanks!
 
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Less lethal devices can be useful for men, but for most women, are not going to be of limited use against a man twice their size. Might just **** them off enough to trade an assault for a homicide. Follow up on the CCW with ample firearm training and simulations. And the best protection is identifying high risk situations and avoiding them.
 
How about "Tiger Lady"?
This ergonomic, hand-held claw can go with you anywhere. Made of high-impact plastic, TigerLady's defensive claws emulate those of the big cats from which they get their name. Channels on the underside of the claws are designed to capture DNA so you don't have to see your assailant to make a positive ID.


Put the strap around your wrist and hold TigerLady in your hand before walking to your car or to the subway. Make sure you have it when you leave the club and when you're waiting for the bus. Just the act of holding TigerLady in your hand will ensure that you have a heightened sense of your surroundings, making you feel less vulnerable and more confident.


  • Always ready - non-lethal claws
  • Weighs less than 2 ounces
  • No maintenance ever - No recharging needed
  • Designed to capture DNA to identify the attacker
  • Made in the USA
Click to expand...

www.tigerlady.com

Tigerlady Self-Defense Claw

Meet TigerLady - a revolutionary discreet self-defense tool modeled after a cat's retractable claws. This ergonomic, hand-held claw can go with you anywhere. Made of high-impact plastic, TigerLady's defensive claws emulate those of the big cats from which they get their name. Channels on the...
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MauleSkinner said:
…. The Byrne website, https://byrna.com/ , says “legal in 50 states,” but what does that really mean? And what kind of restrictions would we need to look for on the state and local levels?

Can anyone school me a bit on this stuff?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Never trust the manufacturer to know your state and local laws and good on you for digging deeper.

The first thing you will want to do is thoroughly understand the statutes that cover use of force and use of deadly force in your state. In my state, the criteria for use of force and use of less than lethal force are the same.

You will also want to understand statutes governing chemical dispensing devices. The Texas statute for that is covered in the section on prohibited weapons.

Code: 
 Sec. 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) any of the following items, unless the item is registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record maintained by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives or otherwise not subject to that registration requirement or unless the item is classified as a curio or relic by the United States Department of Justice:
…
(3) a chemical dispensing device;

…(14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.
 
As with any weapon, you need to check local and state laws, but bear spray might be an option. It’s more potent than the juice in those little keyring canisters, there’s more of it, and it sprays several times the distance.

If a woman used it to fend off an attacker, I rather doubt the cops will be too worried about the legality of it. Legality might come into play if the woman is stopped for some reason and found to have it on her person in an area unlikely to harbor bears, like a shopping center. You need to know the rules in your area.
 
Half Fast said:
Really, though, a handgun beats all other options by a wide margin. Best to get comfortable with the idea if you can.
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One of the considerations I share with folks are the impacts of off-body carry, acknowledging not all women carry a purse/handbag, nor do some want another brick in the bag and some men use a murse or backpack.

For my wife, the drawbacks outweigh the benefits as she usually carries a small purse, but when she has one large enough for a firearm, it gets left unattended in shopping carts, the car, on her work desk, handed off to others when she needs to go to the latrine, all sorts of scenarios.

Then there’s having to actually remove a firearm from the purse…not a natural act without a lot of repetitions.

Situational awareness helps a lot, but even someone who carries daily and trains daily can have issues drawing when surprised/caught off guard. Situational awareness is huge to mitigate startle effect.

There’s no perfect solution, even avoidance doesn’t guarantee safety.
 
TCABM said:
One of the considerations I share with folks are the impacts of off-body carry, acknowledging not all women carry a purse/handbag, nor do some want another brick in the bag and some men use a murse or backpack.

For my wife, the drawbacks outweigh the benefits as she usually carries a small purse, but when she has one large enough for a firearm, it gets left unattended in shopping carts, the car, on her work desk, handed off to others when she needs to go to the latrine, all sorts of scenarios.

Then there’s having to actually remove a firearm from the purse…not a natural act without a lot of repetitions.

Situational awareness helps a lot, but even someone who carries daily and trains daily can have issues drawing when surprised/caught off guard. Situational awareness is huge to mitigate startle effect.

There’s no perfect solution, even avoidance doesn’t guarantee safety.
Click to expand...


All true. CC for women can be complicated by attire, much more than for men, and purse carry isn’t a great idea for several reasons including purse snatchers. Some purses are made specifically for CC, though, and they have special compartments and shoulder straps reinforced with steel cable. If one of those is worn, not merely carried, and is kept on the woman’s person at all times, it’s a reasonable option.

Personally, I pocket carry using a pocket holster. It’s simple, well concealed, easily accessible, and slipping my hand into my pocket appears pretty innocuous. With the Florida heat, a cover garment is not always an option, so pocket carry works well.
 
Half Fast said:
…Personally, I pocket carry using a pocket holster. …
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Excuse me, is that a 1911 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

I carry IWB and as little as an untucked t-shirt works effectively for me, but to each their own.

Back on-topic, the pepper ball gun presents that same “how do you keep it handy” challenges as a firearm.
 
Thanks for the info, all!

My wife also has a stun gun, but her concern is that if somebody gets close enough for her to use it, she could be overpowered.

@TCABM I agree…I need to become familiar with the statutes. The CCW class covered some of that, but left a lot of gaps IMO. I need to find somebody to help me figure out how to find and read this stuff. Also your comments about the drawbacks of firearms and the startle effect are good food for thought, probably regardless of the product of choice.

I’ve been debating with myself whether or not to include this, but here it is…the primary concern is my wife’s ex. My wife and one of my step-daughters (his daughter) have set boundaries with him that he likes to push and see what he can get away with, and they go deep into fight-or-flight when he gets near them. We suspect the daughter who has had the best relationship with him might have laid out some serious boundaries now, as well…she and my wife haven’t had a chance to have a conversation yet, though. They really have very little contact with him, but occasionally there are events like this weekend where they know he’s going to be around (I couldn’t be there, but my wife recruited a half dozen friends and family to surround them) and there’s always the possibility that they’ll run into him around town somewhere.

Honestly, I think a good self-defense course would be the best, but we’re looking a options, and they’re still a little punchy from this weekend.
 
TCABM said:
One of the considerations I share with folks are the impacts of off-body carry, acknowledging not all women carry a purse/handbag, nor do some want another brick in the bag and some men use a murse or backpack.

For my wife, the drawbacks outweigh the benefits as she usually carries a small purse, but when she has one large enough for a firearm, it gets left unattended in shopping carts, the car, on her work desk, handed off to others when she needs to go to the latrine, all sorts of scenarios.

Then there’s having to actually remove a firearm from the purse…not a natural act without a lot of repetitions.

Situational awareness helps a lot, but even someone who carries daily and trains daily can have issues drawing when surprised/caught off guard. Situational awareness is huge to mitigate startle effect.

There’s no perfect solution, even avoidance doesn’t guarantee safety.
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Belly bands work great in just about anything that's not skin tight.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’ve been debating with myself whether or not to include this, but here it is…the primary concern is my wife’s ex. My wife and one of my step-daughters (his daughter) have set boundaries with him that he likes to push and see what he can get away with, and they go deep into fight-or-flight when he gets near them.
Click to expand...

In this situation, I’d be worried about non-lethal weapons. It might deter one immediate incident, but then he’ll be back at another time, he’ll be prepared, he’ll be pi$$ed, and it will be worse.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Thanks for the info, all!

My wife also has a stun gun, but her concern is that if somebody gets close enough for her to use it, she could be overpowered.

@TCABM I agree…I need to become familiar with the statutes. The CCW class covered some of that, but left a lot of gaps IMO. I need to find somebody to help me figure out how to find and read this stuff. Also your comments about the drawbacks of firearms and the startle effect are good food for thought, probably regardless of the product of choice.

I’ve been debating with myself whether or not to include this, but here it is…the primary concern is my wife’s ex. My wife and one of my step-daughters (his daughter) have set boundaries with him that he likes to push and see what he can get away with, and they go deep into fight-or-flight when he gets near them. We suspect the daughter who has had the best relationship with him might have laid out some serious boundaries now, as well…she and my wife haven’t had a chance to have a conversation yet, though. They really have very little contact with him, but occasionally there are events like this weekend where they know he’s going to be around (I couldn’t be there, but my wife recruited a half dozen friends and family to surround them) and there’s always the possibility that they’ll run into him around town somewhere.

Honestly, I think a good self-defense course would be the best, but we’re looking a options, and they’re still a little punchy from this weekend.
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Not to be indelicate, but things like pepper spray or a "stun gun" might be a deterrent to a low-effort attacker looking for a target of opportunity. They're really unlikely to have much utility against a stalker or motivated attacker.

If your wife and her kids' relationship with her ex is such that they've established "boundaries" that warrant the use of pepper spray, then what they really need is a protective order and the means to actually defend themselves when not surrounded by friends.
 
There are purses specifically designed for concealed carry.
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I would suggest NEVER carrying a fake gun, BB, pellet, or pepper ball. They are more likely to get the carrier shot rather than protected. When an attacker sees it and if the attacker has a real gun--you lose. If the attacker is unarmed or knife-armed, once they realize your gun is fake--you lose. Either carry a real gun and learn how to use it or go for any of the close quarter non-lethal suggestions listed elsewhere in the thread.

And if you do conceal carry, NEVER leave your firearm unattended and unsecured. For example, in a purse on a shopping cart. That is irresponsible and a danger to the public. In many states, if you do that, you are responsible for the future use of your stolen gun.
 
Pocket carry can be a great option if you pick a gun you can control. Something small like a S&W Bodyguard or Ruger LCP is very easy to carry, but uncomfortable to shoot. A gun that size in a weaker caliber, like .22 or .32, might be a better option if you will take it to a range and practice.

As for Less-Lethal... I'd be worried about repeated contact. This isn't a random thug looking for an easy mark, this is a specific person looking for a specific target. Might fend him off once, but the second time? If you and your family are this afraid, you might consider more drastic legal measures such as a restraining order or something.

One more comment about carry guns, the more you enjoy shooting them, the better they will serve you. If you're scared of the recoil or the noise and you don't enjoy training, you should pick a different gun, even if that means picking a 'weaker' caliber. There are some larger-ish handguns in smaller-ish calibers, like a S&W Shield in .380. These are generally big enough that you can get a full grip, thus easing control during recoil. Furthermore, because they are chambered in .380, there is less recoil to manage. Harder to carry or conceal (than the smaller bodyguard), but much better to shoot. Not sure how applicable this is to you or your wife, just food for thought.
 
Maulskinner, your families issues are such that the person causing the risk can cause an over aggressive response, and great cost to your family.

Bear spray at short range can cause permanent eye injury, and it is near impossible to prove that no injury has occurred, resulting in huge financial risk.

Bystanders may well be part of the injured, with financial risk there too.

It is obvious to me why you are not interested in carry options, and am aware of the issues that can come with that solution. A young lady that I dated years ago had a protective order against her ex, and the Judge included in the order that the county Sheriff immediately issue a CCW. She objected, the Judge explained that he wished the ex clearly understand that the young lady need not wait for police response for protection.

Her ex had been Dishonorably Discharged from the Army for repeated attacks on his fellow soldiers. He had also assaulted her. She carried a .380 in her purse everywhere, and never set it down in a public space.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Thanks for the info, all!

My wife also has a stun gun, but her concern is that if somebody gets close enough for her to use it, she could be overpowered.

Honestly, I think a good self-defense course would be the best, but we’re looking a options, and they’re still a little punchy from this weekend.
Click to expand...
I learned about stun guns from my girlfriend... she had it in her hand and I thought she was handing it to me. Turns out if you grab it to try to take it away from someone, you get quite a jolt! She also carries, so she keeps me safe!

I taught a rape defense class for a few years. I think it's the best thing you can do. It teaches not only how to respond, but how to respond violently, like your life depends on it, because it just might. Also teaches them to scream. Let that rage out and it may scare the attacker away or draw attention from help.
 
Half Fast said:
But are impossible to access if the woman is wearing a dress instead of a blouse or T-shirt.
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That's what thigh holsters are for. But the reality is that some wardrobe adaptation may be required. Just as it is for men.
 
@MauleSkinner Thanks for providing additional information. I can only imagine the intensity of that situation and the residual effects that has and will likely continue to have. Those above have addressed the majority of the significant concerns. As stated, if the boundaries are being pushed to that degree that physical force is even anticipated, a protective order seems to be in line with sound reason. Going to a judge and laying out how the boundaries have repeatedly been crossed and showing that the less lethal option of pepper spray is not enough to make these ladies feel safe should be cause for justification.

As far as the firearms go, it has been my experience (LEO, competitive shooter, NRA instructor, etc) that the biggest cause for people being uncomfortable with firearms is lack of personal experience. Remember the first time you climbed into the cockpit of an airplane? You might have been excited, but there was probably also a bit of apprehension. Now, after hundreds or even thousands of hours, there is no fear because you are so comfortable that even if/when those "unexpected events" occur, you know what to do. Similarly, those first few hundred rounds down range take some thought and concentration, but if you can get someone who is a good instructor and would be willing to work through that period of discomfort with them, that could become a much more reasonable option.

I know a lot of people are hesitant to make the jump to the lethal option, but I'd rather have the lethal option and not need to go that far than to need to go that far and only have the pepper spray.

I PM'd you, and my offer still stands. If you want, I can reach out to some of my contacts out there for you. If you don't want me to, that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, I just want what's best for you and your family!
 
MauleSkinner said:
…Honestly, I think a good self-defense course would be the best, but we’re looking a options, and they’re still a little punchy from this weekend.
Click to expand...
Given the additional context, a court order is something to consider, but enforcement requires patience for an LEO to arrive and/or evidence the order was violated. They’re also worth their weight in gold by establishing legal boundaries.

If mere presence is resulting in reasonable fear of injury or life, there’s much bigger conversations to be had than less lethal options, especially if minors or custody issues are involved.
 
geezer said:
Bear spray at short range can cause permanent eye injury, and it is near impossible to prove that no injury has occurred, resulting in huge financial risk.

Bystanders may well be part of the injured, with financial risk there too.
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These truths are true for any sort of violent resistance to violence, but personally I'd rather hash it out in a courtroom than be unable to argue because I'm in a coffin. There is no means to defend yourself that is completely without risk. The point is to incur less risk than you would by NOT defending yourself, and financial risk at any level is better than risking death.
 
I'll just stress that pocket carry does NOT mean dropping a small handgun in your pocket. Way too much potential for the gun, or trigger, to get snagged on something. Always use a pocket holster--they shield the trigger, mask the outline of the gun, are designed to stay in the pocket when drawing the gun, and often have a bit of retention built in, to keep the gun in place until you want it to come out of the pocket.

Don't forget to carry an extra magazine in a manner that is quick to reach. Not because defensive shootings typically involve a high round count--they don't--but because some common firearm malfunctions are most quickly resolved with a mag swap.

1729096859655.png
 
I know that your wife and daughter are looking at less-than-lethal, but I would seriously consider getting them comfortable with carrying lethal force everywhere. Get the restraining order and the self-defense class, too, but they're facing a serious threat that most likely will not respond to less-than-lethal force or will quickly stop responding to it. It is an adjustment for sure - I hadn't ever shot a gun of any type except a nerf gun until after I got married, and while I'm comfortable around them now, it took a lot of exposure and explanation of how guns worked and what things could go wrong before I got to be comfortable.

I prefer wearing a holster, as I feel like it is easier to access and more secure, but it is very hard to conceal anything in women's jeans and shorts, especially in the heat, and I don't have a thigh holster for when I wear skirts and dresses (and no practice using one). When I do wear a holster, though, I carry it in the same position as I carry my purse. For me, it's the easiest and most fluid position to draw from, and it's the easiest to conceal as all I need to do is wear a loose-fitting top. Because of clothing choices, I purse-carry most of the time, both with a special purse with a concealed zipper pocket and thick strap and in a regular, smaller purse.

For carrying in a regular purse, I would highly recommend getting a cross-body bag and always wearing it on the front, slightly skewed to either side. I'm right hand dominant, so I wear it on the front of my left hip. It gives you the advantage of being able to work the zipper with the non-dominant hand and grab out your gun with your dominant hand in surprisingly little time. (I just went and timed myself drawing from my regular purse. Even adding two seconds of "startle response", it took about 6 seconds to go from hands at my side to being "target acquired, ready to fire". And I have not been practicing that like I probably should be.) The cross-body carry also gives you a lot more ways to protect the strap and body of the purse. As it is flat against your body, it is a lot harder for a purse-swiper to slice that strap without you realizing what is happening, and carrying the purse in front of your body makes it harder for a purse-swiper to actually grab it even if the strap was sliced. Purpose-built purses are also very nice, as they are often reinforced and designed to be easily accessed. You will have to get used to "guarding" your purse, though. That wasn't an issue for me because I've never liked the idea of leaving my purse out of sight unless I was in a trusted, closed environment, but if you don't already do it, it would be something to learn as well.

If talking to someone who recently got comfortable with guns with little to no prior exposure and who now carries every time she leaves the house would help your wife and/or daughters get more comfortable with the idea themselves, send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number for them.
 
mini pew pew (ruger 380) in mini pocket.

9fe83562cf5b2dd0fa32475e87ffa7a7.jpg
 
TCABM said:
Given the additional context, a court order is something to consider, but enforcement requires patience for an LEO to arrive and/or evidence the order was violated. They’re also worth their weight in gold by establishing legal boundaries.

If mere presence is resulting in reasonable fear of injury or life, there’s much bigger conversations to be had than less lethal options, especially if minors or custody issues are involved.
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True.

Unfortunately, restraining orders and the like don't stop attacks; they facilitate further legal action afterward. The threat of that might be a slight deterent to the stalker, but it's not worth betting on. If a victim does have to defend herself, though, having previously had a restraining order in place might ease the subsequent legal hassles as it would help substantiate there being a credible threat.
 
I’m sorry to hear that you are going through this. I would recommend the protective order route, I’m not sure how to get this but I’m sure the police should be able to direct you, I think you need to go to court to request it from a judge and that the ex might have an opportunity to respond / dispute it.

Getting pepper spray and carrying it is easy and cheap, although I’m guessing that some cities may make those illegal. Like others said, you may **** off the ex more and the situation escalates and there is the chance of injuring innocent bystanders. When you are heated stuff can go wrong, I often think removing oneself from the situation is the best response.

Did you all have a chance to talk about the past weekend, if one had a gun, would they have pulled it out in public and what would they have done? If one had pepper spray, what would they have done? I think it’s easy to say oh I would pull it out and shoot, but you also need some justification to use the weapon, and it’s likely to draw a lot of attention, calls to 911, and a police response. What would the bystanders say when they call 911? Crazy lady waving a gun? How would the police respond when they arrive? (Not saying you are crazy, just want you to be aware of how others may interpret the situation and how that interpretation could cause more issues).

I am all for gun rights, I have a CCL, took the class, etc. But I am not in a gun friendly state, businesses have the right to put a no gun sign on their business and that means you cannot bring a gun in. Plus a number of other rules, you cannot open carry so pulling a gun is going to be an issue. I don’t want to deal with the headache, and I don’t want the responsibility of having one on me ready to use. But that’s my opinion.

I would consider the self defense classes, pepper spray, and even consider moving. Most importantly, I would not want to live in fear going out in town.
 
Lindberg said:
That's what thigh holsters are for. But the reality is that some wardrobe adaptation may be required. Just as it is for men.
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Yep, but a bit more challenging for women.

And that's another reason I like pocket carry (with pocket holster). My carry method and weapon location is always the same, regardless of what I'm wearing. I have three handguns that I use for CCW: a Keltec .32, a 9mm semiauto, and a .38sp snub. I can fit one of those in any pants I own. Most often I carry the 9 or the .38, but when in dress slacks or snug jeans I can still carry the .32.
 
Half Fast said:
I have three handguns that I use for CCW: a Keltec .32, a 9mm semiauto, and a .38sp snub
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I switched my carry from the Ruger LC9 to the S&W .38 special. Because with the 38 I won't have to pick up the empty casings.

Plus it was made in 1922, old style point and click technology...
 
flyingpreacher said:
@MauleSkinner Thanks for providing additional information. I can only imagine the intensity of that situation and the residual effects that has and will likely continue to have. Those above have addressed the majority of the significant concerns. As stated, if the boundaries are being pushed to that degree that physical force is even anticipated, a protective order seems to be in line with sound reason. Going to a judge and laying out how the boundaries have repeatedly been crossed and showing that the less lethal option of pepper spray is not enough to make these ladies feel safe should be cause for justification.

As far as the firearms go, it has been my experience (LEO, competitive shooter, NRA instructor, etc) that the biggest cause for people being uncomfortable with firearms is lack of personal experience. Remember the first time you climbed into the cockpit of an airplane? You might have been excited, but there was probably also a bit of apprehension. Now, after hundreds or even thousands of hours, there is no fear because you are so comfortable that even if/when those "unexpected events" occur, you know what to do. Similarly, those first few hundred rounds down range take some thought and concentration, but if you can get someone who is a good instructor and would be willing to work through that period of discomfort with them, that could become a much more reasonable option.

I know a lot of people are hesitant to make the jump to the lethal option, but I'd rather have the lethal option and not need to go that far than to need to go that far and only have the pepper spray.

I PM'd you, and my offer still stands. If you want, I can reach out to some of my contacts out there for you. If you don't want me to, that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, I just want what's best for you and your family!
Click to expand...
I guess my thought would be that being comfortable in an airplane leads to complacency. Any time you deal with potentially lethal equipment, there should be a level of apprehension. Guns included. The trade offs vary with the threat level. The pepper spray is more or less totally disabling if used correctly, and you don't have to kill anyone to make a point. But if the guy is off the rails, or has a history of abuse, violence or erratic behavior or substance use, then of course treat it like a mountain lion or any other known threat.
 
TCABM said:
acknowledging not all women carry a purse/handbag, nor do some want another brick in the bag
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Actually…. a 5 pound lead brick is pretty small, and in a small purse with a 2ft handle would hit as hard as a medieval battle mace if swung hard….
 
Thanks for all your input…it all helps me work though what I need to discuss with my wife and daughters.

The daughters are all adults, so no minors involved anymore from that standpoint. The one that has kids of her own doesn’t have both him and my wife there at the same time, among other limits she puts on his visits.

Again, I truly appreciate all of your comments.
 
Specifically on pepper ball, there's two drawbacks to them -

1) It's a gun firing an exploding ball round. You have to hit the target, the ball doesn't explode until it hits. If you miss, someone else might be getting it.
2) It's effectively a strong pepper spray (PAVA), but if the person is on pain killers or depressants, it may not work.

You can get the same impact with a stronger pepper spray.
 
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It's a cliche, but remember, in today's world, when seconds count the cops are only minutes, hours, or days away. Or not coming because of staffing reductions.
 
I'd also second the recommendation of CCW, especially in .380 or 9mm. My wife absolutely loved shooting a S&W M&P .380 EZ as the recoil was minimal, it was fairly compact, and racking the slide or loading the magazine is incredibly easy. I ended up getting her the 9mm version of that gun, but the .380 would honestly be just fine with modern defensive rounds. Only gun we have that's more compact/zero recoil is a .25ACP Saturday Night Special, but that is not an adequate defense weapon, imo. More just fun to shoot at a range because it's so tiny. May be a slight step up above a pellet gun from a defensive standpoint, lol. Seriously, get them some instruction, and have them send 500+ rounds down range over the course of a few weeks. Disassemble/clean/reassemble the gun. Practice drawing from a holster and/or purse-carry. It's the only way they'll be proficient and comfortable-enough to do EDC.

The restraining order is good for legal protection, especially if something happens later on that involves courts/police. However, that doesn't stop the event from occurring. If it's bad enough to need a circle of family/friends, then it needs a restraining order and flat out not having the person invited to any gatherings where your daughters/wife are in attendance.
 
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