Piper arrow iii

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Jaysarrowiii

Filing Flight Plan
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Jay Morgan
So I’m having a problem with my piper arrow iii landing gear. When getting ready to land I go to put landing gear down and the gear in transit light flickers and then the circuit breaker pops and keeps popping every time I reset it and try landing gear again, so I used the emergency lever and get the gear down and I get three green light and circuit breaker will reset when gear is down. If I try to use it again for a go around and try it once more same issue. So I put the plane on jacks and sweep the gear on the ground and all works as it should. Take the plane back up and it still have the issue any ideas would be great thanks
 
Jaysarrowiii said:
So I’m having a problem with my piper arrow iii landing gear. When getting ready to land I go to put landing gear down and the gear in transit light flickers and then the circuit breaker pops and keeps popping every time I reset it and try landing gear again, so I used the emergency lever and get the gear down and I get three green light and circuit breaker will reset when gear is down. If I try to use it again for a go around and try it once more same issue. So I put the plane on jacks and sweep the gear on the ground and all works as it should. Take the plane back up and it still have the issue any ideas would be great thanks
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I know a 50 year mechanic who serviced and completed a AD on my buddies arrow II gear that he bought a couple years ago. They have been close friends for 40 years. He been in Cleveland for the past 25 years as a DOM. We made many trips back and forth for him to work on my buddy's plane. I got to help. He retired today and is moving to southeastern Indiana with his wife to be closer to his grand children and closer to us! He plans to move all his tools to my buddy's hangar next door. He will still maintain his arrow in my buddy's hangar. He has helped me a lot in the last few years. I will show him your thread and see what he thinks.
 
Welcome to PoA.

I am not a mechanic, but why do circuit breakers pop? Too much current.

Is the motor drawing the amount of current it's supposed to? Are the brushes ok? Does it have gears and bearings and things that haven't been cleaned or lubricated in 50 years? Maybe the motor is fine, but the pump has not seen the light of day since the Ford administration? Does the gear swing freely or does it bind? If things work on the ground but not the air, it sounds to me like it's barely working at all.

@Dan Thomas will be along shortly with a manual excerpt stating maintenance intervals that have likely not been heeded.
 
One difference in flight is the air pressure against the gear at 90 knots or whatever your gear extension speed.

Not that you should fly it this way, but if you went up to altitude and did slow flight, perhaps you could confirm. However, bottom line is something is loose, worn, misaligned, or changed.
 
When you mention going around, I presume the gear retracts OK without popping the breaker? It only pops when you lower the gear?

That nosewheel has to go forward against the wind to extend. That loads the circuit some, more than on the ground or during retraction. So the question now is why the breaker pops, and I can think of at least two distinct possibilities here:

That breaker is as old as the airplane (40 years?) and its contacts are oxidized. That adds resistance, and that resistance causes more heating, and the breaker, a thermal-trip device, is fooled into thinking that the current flow is too much, so it pops. The breaker has a bimetal strip in it that gets warm when the current flow increases, and at or around the current rating it will trip off. Those oxidized contacts create additional heat that the bimetal strip reads as excessive current.

A new breaker would be a good place to start.

The system might have additional friction from underservicing, as GeorgeC suggests.

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When my buddy bought his arrow couple years ago he flew his friend and long time mechanic from Cleveland to Duluth Mn to look it. It was owned by buddy's work friend who also is a AP/IA and 25000 hr Captain check airman , sea plane CFII, etc. Even with all that he met Jim out there to mainly to swing the gear in his shop. Then when they got back he found a AD wasn't done yet on the gear. So he did the AD on it and it got done pretty much right away. The gear is nothing to cheap out on is what learned.
 
Jaysarrowiii said:
So I’m having a problem with my piper arrow iii landing gear. When getting ready to land I go to put landing gear down and the gear in transit light flickers and then the circuit breaker pops and keeps popping every time I reset it and try landing gear again, so I used the emergency lever and get the gear down and I get three green light and circuit breaker will reset when gear is down. If I try to use it again for a go around and try it once more same issue. So I put the plane on jacks and sweep the gear on the ground and all works as it should. Take the plane back up and it still have the issue any ideas would be great thanks
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Is the circuit breaker that is popping the breaker for the pump motor or the breaker for the indicator lights?

On my Arrow IV the gear handle doesn't actuate the pump if the indicator lights breaker goes out, and that sounds like what is happening to you. In my case, the problem was a stray wire left uncapped near the nose gear microswitch that when flying, was contacting a hot wire while in flight once the nose gear started to move.

I would check the microswitch wires near the nose and mains.
 
Datadriver said:
I would check the microswitch wires near the nose and mains.
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That's a good suggestion, but not just for shorting wires. The squat switch on one of the mains also needs examining; it's in the circuit that powers the pump, and the raging wind around it can fatigue its wiring and its solder or crimp connections.

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Datadriver said:
Is the circuit breaker that is popping the breaker for the pump motor or the breaker for the indicator lights?

On my Arrow IV the gear handle doesn't actuate the pump if the indicator lights breaker goes out, and that sounds like what is happening to you. In my case, the problem was a stray wire left uncapped near the nose gear microswitch that when flying, was contacting a hot wire while in flight once the nose gear started to move.

I would check the microswitch wires near the nose and mains.
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It’s the breakers for the pump
 
Jaysarrowiii said:
It’s the breakers for the pump
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How old is the pump? While technically a "fly until fail" part if it has been over 10 years since the pack was overhauled that might be a culprit, showing up only in flight against wind loading.
Those pumps have tiny rubber seals that slowly degrade over time.

Mine went 13 years, then last year I got it replaced by an overhauled unit.
 
pump was replaced in 2017. I talked to an a&m he said maybe the solenoids for the up and down could be bad if they are old
 
A bad pump doesn't usually pop breakers unless its bearings are so bad that the armature is rubbing on the field shoes. That would be an awful lot of hours. Worn brushes will usually raise the resistance of the motor, lowering the current flow. Same with old solenoids: they add resistance.

My bet is still on an old breaker.
 
Jaysarrowiii said:
...the circuit breaker pops and keeps popping every time I reset it and try landing gear again...
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Here's a thought: how do you feel about changing your username to something like, "Jaysflamingarrowiii?" Or maybe, "Jayssmoke-filledflamingcoffinofdoomarrowiii?"
 
Hey guys, IIRC the gear goes down by gravity and up by hydraulic. The pump creates hydraulic pressure to hold the gear up in flight in the up position. When the three up switches are are closed the transit light extinguishes, and the pump stops running then the hydraulic pressure is locked in.
More than likely you will find a short circuiting wire with the wheel wells.
There area also some associated wiring is within the sparbox and in the tunnel under the emergency gear down control (valve)
The low airspeed auto extension has hoses running to a diaphragm switch inside the cabin. It really is a very simple system, again, IIRC

Please return here and tell us what you or your mechanic finds and how you eventually fix your gear breaker fault...
... and don't forget, we all love pictures
 
Ok so the two solenoids in the rear that control the up and down for the gear pump were replaced last night and gear sweeping was done 8 times.no problem, took plane up today and testing the gear in the pattern and first 3 times worked normal then the 5 amp breaker pops and that one says lights on the panel reset it and I get all green. I think the two solenoids in the rear fixed the pump breaker from popping but what do you guys think about the 5 amp one
 
Dan Thomas said:
It's pumped both ways. Emergency is by gravity and springs.
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I get that, before I was popping the 25amp breaker before replacing the solenoids but now I’m popping the 5 amp breaker next to the pump breaker
 
Jaysarrowiii said:
I get that, before I was popping the 25amp breaker before replacing the solenoids but now I’m popping the 5 amp breaker next to the pump breaker
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Then look at the wiring connecting the solenoid. Seems like something may be amiss with the control circuitry (short)
The thing worked perfectly when it left Vero Beach. Most times you'll find the fault where the last technician was working.
Please let us know what you eventually find...
 
Jaysarrowiii said:
, took plane up today and testing the gear in the pattern and first 3 times worked normal then the 5 amp breaker pops and that one says lights on the panel reset it and I get all green. I think the two solenoids in the rear fixed the pump breaker from popping but what do you guys think about the 5 amp one
Click to expand...
Now you are back in my territory where a hot wire was touching something once the gear was in motion. But you are making progress. Fly Arrows long enough and you will deal with these issues...
 
Ok I have an update! Found ground wire loose for the auto gear override switch loose in the trim cover. They tighten it up and no more issues so far working like it does on the ground!
 
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