Wooden propellers for all engines

[meglin]

Decorative propeller went to Germany

 

[meglin]

The German customer is satisfied. I am very happy .

 

[Tools]

Could you please forward me your email? I am ready for a quote for a prop equivalent to a sensenich w85rw57 for a Lycoming o-435 190 hp engine, shipped to a zip code 30707 business address.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[meglin]

Hello, Mike! I am very glad to receive the letter. Unfortunately, our wooden production is not in the best shape right now, due to covid, so we are working quite slowly and we still have outstanding orders. But we are trying our best. Do you want a complete copy of your propeller, or can we do the calculations ourselves and use our profiles and our aerodynamics? Do you need fiberglass pasting and stainless steel edge protection? Usually we have always done these processes, but now I have to ask about it to speed up the execution of the order.

 

[meglin]

This propeller went to the French colleagues for the motor

 

[meglin]

This is a decorative propeller for a nominal cost

 

[meglin]

A new propeller for VW was sent to the USA.

 

[meglin]

There are three wooden blades left, they can be used as souvenirs.

 

[meglin]

Another propeller for the US:

 

[meglin]

After a hiatus, production of decorative propellers has resumed.

 

[meglin]

Another propeller for the US (O-235, SAE-1):

 

[meglin]

The black propeller has gone to the USA. Made a new 190 cm propeller for Walther motor. Below is a photo of the process of making a decorative propeller for Finland.

 

[meglin]

That's where we left off. Flaxseed oil with dissolved wax. Too bad it won't make it to New Year's Eve. It's a little behind schedule.

 

[meglin]

Available is this decorative propeller with a built in barometer. This was the propeller for the Jabiru. It's made of beech wood.

 

[meglin]

Sent off another propeller to the US for VW yesterday. The previous one went to France (first two pictures).

 

[meglin]

I apologize if I'm boring you. Let me show you what I got as a decorative propeller. 71"

 

[ColinD]

Another propeller for the US (O-235, SAE-1):

View attachment 121292View attachment 121293View attachment 121294View attachment 121295

Just in case anyone wants to read a fun story:

I needed a prop last summer. Open cockpit airplane, so I was hoping I could find a suitable propeller in a reasonable timeframe and not miss out on flying the rest of the season. Culver, etc. have a long backlog, so I took a chance with Meglin.

I first reached out to Vladimir on July 13th 2023, and he showed me photos of a red and black prop and told me it was pretty much ready to go, and it could be "prepped and shipped" quickly. I paid him July 18th and he replied immediately, saying he was "getting it ready for shipping." Guy lives in a ******ned warzone, so I exercised some patience and didn't follow up again on August 17th; he responded the following day saying "I'm sorry for my delay. We have been unable to do the propeller for some time for reasons beyond our control. Yesterday we were already working directly on the propeller. The work concerns the attachment of the hub." An interesting new detail regarding a prop that was supposed to be nearly ready to ship a month prior. I prodded him once again on September 24th, and didn't receive a response until October 8th, when he announced his intention to ship the prop the following day. On Halloween, I got word from the shipping broker (Meest) that it had arrived at their facility in New Jersey, and I made arrangements to have them ship it via UPS for the 'final mile' leg of the journey. November 8th, I receive an empty plastic shipping tube with a bunch of 2" packing tape wrapped around the perimeter on one end, looking like it had been cut by normal contact against other packages in transit. The foam plug taped into the other end was hanging by a thread, and there was no propeller present.

I did a bunch of legwork and did manage to recover the propeller from the UPS 'overgoods' facility, where lost items are warehoused until they can be matched with their intended recipients. The propeller wasn't painted quite like the red and black prop shown in the sample photo from July, and it had a few new nicks and scratches. I was already pretty hesitant to trust my life to it, but I figured I could perform some taxi testing. I tried to mount the propeller and it wouldn't quite fit the SAE 1 hub of my O-235. Upon further inspection, it seemed like there was a slight misalignment (pitch circle diameter was not drilled exactly concentric to the center bore,) and there were globs of cured composite resin in the drive lug bores, necessitating some cleanup. The subsequent paint removal revealed some interesting looking features in the bores, so I dug deeper. At this point I was absolutely not going to trust my life to it, so I put it in my milling machine and used a paddle bit to take a core sample around each bolt hole, uncovering several former bolt patterns which had been plugged with dowels.

I notified Vladimir of my findings, and he advised some ways to correct the poor workmanship, as well as offering to refund me the difference between a functional and a decorative propeller. The initial purchase price of the propeller was $855, and Vlad wanted to get another $150 out of me to cover the Meest shipping bill, which he had fronted. Absolutely fair, and I would have gladly reimbursed him if the propeller were useable. I was feeling charitable, I guess, so I proposed the following: "I understand the cost delta between functional and souvenir propellers, but I did not set out to purchase a decorative/souvenir propeller. At this point, I'd be satisfied with a $400 refund and keeping all this between you and I." He continued to haggle and I ultimately accepted a refund of $352.50, which was ($855-$150)/2. Since the $400 offer was snubbed, I think I'm justified in withdrawing my conditional offer to keep this dirty laundry between he and I.

Ultimately, I bought a Sensenich wood prop and flew the plane again in May of this year. The $353 "decorative" Meglin prop is displayed on my hangar wall. As a craftsman, having that steaming turd prominently displayed reminds me of the importance of being transparent with my customers and that knowing how to properly correct my mistakes is sometimes as important as not making them in the first place. Plus, I get to trash him every time someone asks me about it.

Hope you guys found this entertaining!

 

[Brad Smith]

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/pma/pma_des

 

[meglin]

Dear Colin, thank you for your study.
I thought the matter was closed, I thought so from your words. But suddenly I saw that it was not. Therefore, I think it is possible to post our correspondence. It should make it clear that:
1) the propeller is new and has not worked on the airplane. It is made of hardwood, fiberglassed and protected with stainless steel,
2) the mounting system was modified for different types of mounts. This was done with proper epoxy and hardwood technology, with a huge excess of hub strength,
3) Mr. Colin was offered various options to solve the problem, including getting rid of the propeller by sending it to my American friends, with a refund minus postage. But the esteemed Colin decided to keep it as a decoration,
4) I then learned that there was an intention to use it for testing. It is very valuable to us, but after through-cutting holes of large diameter and using plugs installed on water glue may be dangerous, the technology is broken, the result is unpredictable, the strength of this glue I do not know,
5) American letter carriers lost the contents of a parcel, sending one package in the form of a rigid pipe without contents. But then they still found it with superficial damage.
6) I made the delivery at my own expense to speed up the process, although the Meest-Express system now only requires exclusively a special request by the recipient, followed by payment on receipt.
The correspondence is posted in reverse order, new messages at the top. personal details are not in it, and the financial matters dear Colin posted earlier.

 

[meglin]

"Hello, Colin!
The propeller is made of strong wood, its planks are glued together with high strength glue. However, it is possible that the hub may be weakened by the large through holes. Therefore, please be extremely careful not to be in the plane of rotation of the propeller. Is the propeller still balanced? Is the propeller still balanced? What revolutions are obtained? Is the noise significant? Please inspect the hub after each test.
Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

The refund was received.

I used standard water-based wood glue to affix the wood plugs. I'm performing taxi tests and engine break-in, and not leaving the ground with this propeller. A Sensenich prop is being built currently to replace it.
Regards,
Colin

Happy holidays, dear Colin! I hope the money has been received. You didn't answer about the glue.
Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

I bored the holes all the way through the hub and used a 'ramin' hardwood dowel rod to fill them. Apparently its properties are similar to beech.

I intend on replacing this propeller before the airplane is flown, but I need to mount this propeller so that I can perform taxi testing and break in my rebuilt engine this winter. This propeller will be removed and displayed on my wall, but I need it to provide a load and cooling airflow until then. I cannot afford to wait six months to have another prop built before I resume work on this airplane. I understand the cost delta between functional and souvenir propellers, but I did not set out to purchase a decorative/souvenir propeller. At this point, I'd be satisfied with a $400 refund and keeping all this between you and I.

Thanks,
Colin

Dear Colin, I thought you were going to keep it as a souvenir. Although the propeller was not installed on the airplane, its hole system had to be redesigned. Epoxy was used to glue the boards together. Any holes made and material removed should be done in a dry area and immediately sealed with varnish or resin to prevent water vapor from entering the wood. The work you have done is a matter of absolute respect. Thanks so much for the photos, especially the dimensional diagram. But in any case, our costs in its design and manufacture are disproportionately higher. I think you'll agree with that. The proposed 50% was implied when using the propeller as a souvenir. Our souvenir propeller of similar size with no fiberglass fabric and no steel protection costs about the 50% quoted. One customer in the USA is waiting for a decorative propeller from us, another customer I would love to give it to.
When the propeller is used for its intended purpose, the proportion is quite different. We have no more than 5% of the total labor cost to make the holes. Believe me, our costs for this propeller were substantial, and I want to at least partially compensate for them. On the other hand, I would like to minimize your negative impression of our mistake. So let's look for another ratio.
Dear Colin, I happened to notice one important circumstance. In this connection I have a question: Are your plugs through and through, all the way through the hub? What kind of wood are they made of?
Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

Vladimir:

It seems like the bolt pattern was located about .030 off axis, just enough that I could not get it to fit the crankshaft flange. Moreover, the bores of the drive bushings were contaminated with some resin-like material, and when I attempted to remove the obstruction, I discovered that the bolt pattern had been plugged and redrilled three times - I was under the impression I was buying a new propeller, not a reworked one. I bored each of the six holes up to 1.25 inches and inserted a hardwood dowel, then redrilled for a 3/8 bolt and reamed them for a 5/8 drive bushing concentric to the center bore. It fits my crankshaft now, but I haven't reapplied any varnish or topcoats, and I have not yet repaired the damage caused by its excursion from the packaging tube. Is the wooden core sealed inside a typical fiberglass resin and cloth layup, or how would you advise I finish the hub in a way that's compatible with your materials?

I'm going to need a larger refund than the proposed half minus the cost of shipping ((855/2)-150 = 277.50 USD) This is a considerable amount of unforeseen labor on my part, and frankly a disappointment after waiting this long for a propeller you said was ready to ship in mid-July.

Thanks,
Colin

I'll get it fixtured in my mill soon and try to derive some dimensions from it.

Thanks,
Colin

You're right, of course. Although the classic wooden propeller is a very robust unit. It is glued from many boards, and the destruction of any of them is not critical. Additional reinforcement is the fiberglass cloth on the outside. Any propeller designer is primarily interested in the achieved efficiency of the propeller at least on the ground. Although ground performance is only a proxy for flight performance. I have aviators in the US who ask for a decorative propeller. There are also people in the US that I would like to give a gift to. But if you would like to keep it for yourself - I would be happy to do that as well. And of course I will send to Paypal half of the cost of the propeller minus postage. Nevertheless, dear Colin, it is very important for me to know the degree of axle misalignment, and I will be glad to take measurements. At least the dimensions between the walls of the bolt holes and the center hole. I need to get to the root cause. USPS-- that's what the translator said.
Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

Vladimir:

It was UPS, not USPS, who shipped the prop from the Meest office in New Jersey. The tape on the ends of the tube did not look like it had been cut; rather, it looked like it tore along the hard edge of the tube as it shifted or rolled in transit. I can only speculate. When I received the propeller, UPS had relocated it to an unclaimed goods warehouse in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then repackaged it in a new cardboard box and wrapped it securely in brown paper and foam. It has no visible cracking, but there are some small nicks and gouges in the trailing edge and scratches in the paint. It could probably be 'dressed' and repainted after inspecting for damage, but the offset bolt pattern remains a problem for me. I'm a metal fabricator, not a woodworker. I have a good milling machine with a rotary head and I could probably rework the bolt pattern, but I have lost confidence in the propeller. I don't know what mistreatment it may have endured without its packaging, whether someone stepped on it or bent it and inflicted damage to the wood fibers that I can't visually inspect. It's not worth risking my life as a pilot.

It's a good looking propeller and I'd be happy to display it on my wall, but I would like to receive at least a partial refund as I can't consider it airworthy.

Thank you,
Colin

Hello, dear Colin!
What did the post office say? How did they explain the opened parcel and the damage? Was the propeller wrapped in foil? Were there protective covers on the ends of the blades? Are the tips intact? Are there no nicks or cracks?
We're trying to figure out where and how much error was made. I have just now checked again that the bolt holes were drilled using a steel conductor. The conductor in turn was centered using a steel bushing turned on a lathe. All the centers should match. Could you measure the amount of misalignment or roughly estimate it? If the misalignment is small, you can carefully re-drill (increase the diameter) the bushing holes, allowing the center pin to enter. Once the center pin is in, this will ensure the propeller is properly seated and balanced. The enlarged holes need to be varnished. If the offset is too large, you will need to glue in wooden plugs and re-drill the holes. This sounds simple, but actually requires special equipment. We can do it of course, but the shipping costs have become too high, three times the cost of the propeller. It is probably easier for you to buy a propeller somewhere nearby. I will have to apologize to you and refund your money.
Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

UPS found the propeller and returned it to me today with only a few minor scrapes and chips in the paint.

I tried to mount the propeller and the bolt pattern is not drilled concentric to the center bore. I cannot use this.

Photo and video attached.

Colin

Dear Colin, I called Meest Express just in case and outlined the nature of the problem. I was told that you should contact their New Jersey office at 18002889949, 17326341517. Presumably you have already reported the loss to them?
Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

The mailing tube arrived via UPS, but the tape had failed on one end (and nearly on the other) and the propeller was missing. I have filed a claim with UPS and I'm hoping they can locate the propeller, but I'm not sure if it was separated from the package when it was in their possession or with Meest.

Please see the attached photos.

Regards,
Colin

That's great!
Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

Yes sir, I got that confirmation as well. I made arrangements for Meest to ship it to me via UPS. Looking forward to receiving it soon, and then I'll reimburse you for the shipping cost.

Thanks,
Colin

Sent from my iPhone

Dear Colin, the package arrived in New Jersey:
Arrival at the exchange office. Your parcel has been delivered from Ukraine to meest-america warehouse 600 markley st, port reading, nj 07064, usa. Please contact meest-america office: 1-732-634-1517 for further pickup.
New Jersey, USA"

Sincerely, Vladimir Meglinsky

 

[ColinD]

That's correct, I did ultimately insert new plugs and machine the hub correctly so I could commence engine break-in while I waited for a propeller from a reputable manufacturer.

Putting aside all quibbling about the refund, the packaging and shipping, and the protracted timeline, let's remember that the propeller-shaped-object I received did not bolt onto an SAE 1 hub when it arrived.

The matter is indeed closed.

 

[meglin]

Dear Colin. If the glue used is as strong as epoxy glue and the plugs are made of hardwood, there should be no problem, except for excessively large drill diameters. I can certainly recalculate it for strength, but in any case it will be significantly less than normal. So I would limit its use to ground testing. Any results on rpm and thrust?