Training in a Challenger II

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toddie123

Filing Flight Plan
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Aug 7, 2023
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Todd K
Hi everybody,

I’m currently a sport pilot, and looking to build hours inexpensively, work toward CFI-S, and earn ASES.

It seems like the challenger II may be a decent choice to meet that mission. However, a friend of mine would like to work toward earning a sport license; he offered to buy-into a challenger if I were to instruct him once I earned CFI-S.

Of the LSAs I’ve flown, there are more advanced birds (Evektor Harmony, Sportstar, RV12, Remos, CTLS). I have the strong inclination that my buddy would not develop strong aviating skills and resource management in a challenger. I also have zero clue on flight characteristics as well.

Am I overthinking this, or is my thinking sound?

Does anyone here have any two-pennies to share?

Thanks!
 
I flew Challengers for a number of years and instructed in them under the former exemption for part 103 as a BFI/AFI. My personal plane was a 1991 CH2CWS. Fun airplanes to fly and the long wing versions make fair trainers (clip wing versions are good trainers but can't carry as much weight). But the controls are not crisp, they have gobs of adverse yaw, and the light wing loading requires picking your days for training as the middle of the day can be quite exciting when the turbulence, winds, & thermals gang up on you.

The other part is learning to properly operate a two stroke engine. They are different and when properly maintained and managed will still sometimes punch out before the flight is over. But it does up your "engine failure, emergency landing skills" a bit. ;)

Still, flying a Challenger was a great deal of fun and taught me a lot about light aircraft with low mass & inertia. Being a pusher is different also but nothing that can't be managed ...
 
My very first plane was a Challenger 2. I have about 6 hours in it. Scariest plane I've flown so after six hours in it, I sold it again. New owner loves it though and has been flying it for the past three years, so it really comes down to preference.
 
Having owned & flown Challengers and now having owned and built a couple of Sonex aircraft I like this video from Dave Storey:


Different planes for different missions or as Jeremy Monnett would say, "horses for courses." I miss that guy!
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
My very first plane was a Challenger 2. I have about 6 hours in it. Scariest plane I've flown so after six hours in it, I sold it again. New owner loves it though and has been flying it for the past three years, so it really comes down to preference.
Click to expand...
What about it scared you?

I know it is known for having adverse yaw.

Being a recent college grad with student debt to pay-off, I think this satisfies the mission as an inexpensive time builder and trainer for ASES.

I could be wrong, but I'd rather put money into operational/ownership expenses into an item I have equity in.

Do you know what the resale market is like and operational costs were for you?
 
toddie123 said:
What about it scared you?

I know it is known for having adverse yaw.

Being a recent college grad with student debt to pay-off, I think this satisfies the mission as an inexpensive time builder and trainer for ASES.

I could be wrong, but I'd rather put money into operational/ownership expenses into an item I have equity in.

Do you know what the resale market is like and operational costs were for you?
Click to expand...

Adverse yaw, the fact that it was thrown around in wind like it's a leaf (but I live in a windy area so may not be an issue elsewhere) and I just never managed to get comfortable in it. My six hours in it was with a safety pilot and I never dared going on my own. In contrast, the next plane I bought after the Challenger was a Rans S6. I had a one hour instruction flight in it and went solo the next day. But keep in mind, this is very subjective. Some people fly it and love it, thinking it's the easiest plane to fly. Others find the Rans difficult to fly. I now own a Comanche and I keep hearing people saying how difficult it is to land the Comanche. I disagree with them, I find it much harder to land a Cessna 172 than a Comanche to be honest. Different people have different preferences.

Resale market back then was good for me. I put it on the market and had it sold within three months at a higher price than what I bought it for that same year. OpEx on the Challenger can be close to nothing or several thousand dollars depending on how the Rotax is holding up and how handy you are. I did have it hangared which adds to your OpEx. I wouldn't store a tube and fabric plane with an exposed engine outdoors. I didn't own it long enough to really give you an account of OpEx. In the few months I owned it, it needed nothing so just fuel, insurance (which was minimal) and hangar. The Rans after that (same engine) had a gearbox failure and it cost me $2,000 to replace it.
 
toddie123 said:
Hi everybody,

I’m currently a sport pilot, and looking to build hours inexpensively, work toward CFI-S, and earn ASES.

It seems like the challenger II may be a decent choice to meet that mission. However, a friend of mine would like to work toward earning a sport license; he offered to buy-into a challenger if I were to instruct him once I earned CFI-S.

Of the LSAs I’ve flown, there are more advanced birds (Evektor Harmony, Sportstar, RV12, Remos, CTLS). I have the strong inclination that my buddy would not develop strong aviating skills and resource management in a challenger. I also have zero clue on flight characteristics as well.

Am I overthinking this, or is my thinking sound?

Does anyone here have any two-pennies to share?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
What CRM and aviating skills won’t he learn in a Challenger? He might wind up a better stick-and-rudder pilot without the distraction of learning a glass panel for day VFR in slow planes.
 
If you’re going for CFI-S, I’d suggest buying into a plane with easier direct transfer to other LSA’s that are popular. Unless you are planning on being a specialty LSA pusher instructor, which honestly might be a decent business choice as there aren’t that many instructors offering that.
 
There’s a lot of great stuff here everyone. Thank you!

I’ve found a Challenger II for sale that seems compelling.

It’s an earlier model—boxier nose—does anyone have a solid valuation on one? I.e how much they cost on average?
 
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