VFR to IFR upgrade (before delivery of new aircraft)

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matt2506

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Matt
Hello to you all,

I am new here and this is my first post.

I am a VFR pilot. Last year, I decided to buy a new aircraft (Magnus Fusion 212, S-LSA) which is supposed to be delivered in August this year. Since I am planning on doing my instrument rating, I thought I upgrade my airplane before delivery to make sure I can use it to get my rating and subsequently fly IFR with it.

When I originally ordered the aircraft, I only ordered avionics for VFR use:

Dynon Skyview HDX 10” Dual Displays
Autopilot with control panel
Dynon VHF Com Radio 25 kHz
Dynon XPNDR S mode
ADS-B in, out and weather (Dynon SV-472)
Complete Engine Monitoring Pack – Dynon
NVFR set (cockpit and instrument lights)
Analog backup instruments: Airspeed, Vertical Speed, Altimeter, Compass.

The sales agent is a real pain (I guess the plane is ordered and the commission is secured) and he is no help at all. He suggested to add the following equipment for another 18k:

MGL N16 NAV radio
VEGA controller
MiniUni Backup EFIS
High-performance ADAHRS
Precision Magnetic module
2 sets of remote VHF 25 khz radio

Here are my questions:
- 18k seems to be a lot considering that they have to build a new panel anyway and the above mentioned IFR equipment costs around 3-5k (according to my own research)
- I wanna make sure my panel is nice and "clean" and not cluttered with huge number of instruments. Wouldn't it be better to buy a Dual SkyView IFR panel (which might already include some of the components mentioned above?)
(Sorry, if that's a stupid question, but I am very light on avionics and I am not yet familiarized with IFR equipment.)

I prefer a more elegant, cleaner solution, even if it costs a bit more. Also, I am not only interested in the legal minimum for IFR but will always focus on safe flying, so if backup instruments are necessary let me know.

Thank you all.
Matt
 
Matt:

The jump from VFR to IFR requires at least a NAV radio such as the one the guy suggested. I'd also suggest an IFR certified GPS if you are serious. Dynon sells neither.

Expect install labor to be 50% of the hardware cost on almost any avionics work.
 
The IFR system is now so GPS-centric that WAAS-GPS (IFR GPS) is practically essential. Most non-metro airports will have an LPV approach, opening up all sorts of IFR destinations. LPVs are very easy to fly IFR. Since installing a GNS-430W shortly after it became available, the only VOR/LOC procedures I have flown have been ILS approaches to metro airports. (And I could have just as easily have requested the equivalent LPV.) In the northeast (Central New York is my home base), the VIctor airway system (using actual VOR signals) can be at times nearly useless due to scheduled decommissioning and unscheduled failures of VORs.
 
My guess is you can only order what the manufacturer will let you order. Have you reached out to then instead of the sales rep?

If the sales rep is the manufacturer, are they willing to put in whatever you want?
 
Your two months away from receiiving your aircraft and your wondering why the manufacturer is balking at changing "your panel"?

You must not understand all the design decisions, engineering, and assembly components that go into this. In many ways this changes your entire airplane. This changes your entire firewall forward and a number of other systems likely in the wings and fuse. And it changes the weight and balance.

The re-engineering and re-design will take a very significant amount of time. They will need to start over with the entire wiring system design, POH revisions, and on and on... What you see as "adding a few instruments" is actually a huge change for the aircraft manufacturer.

There is also the fact that the mfgr may have to stop work on other aircraft to accomodate your last minute changes. This can affect delivery commitments to other customers.
 
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Before going any further, will the operating limitations for this S-LSA allow it to fly under IFR and/or enter IMC? If not, there might not be a reason to consider an upgrade.
 
The OP makes me scratch my head.

First, the manufacturer has started the building process many moons ago, so last minute changes are not appreciated.

Second, I highly suggest to explore the Dynon website first. There is no such a thing like a Dynon IFR HDX. Furthermore I suggest that you get familiar with the regs regarding IFR equipment e.g. with 14 CFR 91.205. „Being light“ on avionics is not a good excuse.

Panel planning is a serious business and requires a plan, otherwise you can sink a fortune.

Third, there are a couple of things I do not understand. Why analog back-up instruments? Why not just a Dynon D30? As others have already pointed out, GPS based approaches are most common. You can add VOR/ LOC / ILS and GPS approach capability plus a second radio with an Avidyne IFD440. That‘s approx. 13k for the Avidyne box plus some wiring plus modules to transfer the information to the screens.
Avidyne and Dynon play nicely together.
 
mondtster said:
Before going any further, will the operating limitations for this S-LSA allow it to fly under IFR and/or enter IMC? If not, there might not be a reason to consider an upgrade.
Click to expand...
That is what I'd want to know. Is it even possible to fly these IFR legally?

If so I don't even see any mention of an IFR navigator anywhere in the OP.

Something smells really fishy and there is a big lack of information here.

At large companies assembling complex products, big changes two months from the delivery date is a non-starter and would require reflowing the entire product.
 
bnt83 said:
That is what I'd want to know. Is it even possible to fly these IFR legally?
Click to expand...

The plane itself can fly IFR legally, if properly equipped.

If the pilot is only flying as a Sport Pilot, then no.

FAR 61.315 What are the privileges and limits of my sport pilot certificate?
(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:
(12) When the flight or surface visibility is less than 3 statute miles.
(13) Without visual reference to the surface.
 
I'm not sure if this is helpful, but this 2021 model that is for sale has a log describing installation of a GPS module:

www.hangar67.com

2021 Magnus Fusion 212 for sale

2021 Magnus Fusion 212 airplane for sale located in Snohomish, Washington. This listing was posted on Feb 20, 2024. Search more Magnus airplanes on Hangar67.
www.hangar67.com www.hangar67.com

That said, I would agree that it's really late in the build process to be making changes of any sort. I'm surprised that the purchase agreement didn't have lock-in dates after which no changes would be accepted.
 
Please note the difference between being on an IFR flight plan and operating in actual IMC.

S-LSA are special birds. ATSM F37 is one of the governing authority. It is up to the manufacturer if IMC operations are permitted. The next trap is Rotax. Some engine are excluded by Rotax from the list.
 
StraightnLevel said:
I'm not sure if this is helpful, but this 2021 model that is for sale has a log describing installation of a GPS module:

www.hangar67.com

2021 Magnus Fusion 212 for sale

2021 Magnus Fusion 212 airplane for sale located in Snohomish, Washington. This listing was posted on Feb 20, 2024. Search more Magnus airplanes on Hangar67.
www.hangar67.com www.hangar67.com

That said, I would agree that it's really late in the build process to be making changes of any sort. I'm surprised that the purchase agreement didn't have lock-in dates after which no changes would be accepted.
Click to expand...
1717766146935.png
 
I don't see anything on the Magnus website that even hints at them being IFR capable.
 
guest user said:
The plane itself can fly IFR legally, if properly equipped.
Click to expand...

Not all S-LSAs allow instrument flight in their operating limitations. Do you know if the one in question will allow it for sure?
 
IIRC there aren't any LSA's that allow IFR flight as the current ASTM standards preclude it. However, a LSA may be transitioned to an ELSA and then the owner is free to equip it for IFR flight, obtain amended Operating Limitations and fly IFR.
 
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